Should a 'he' be called a 'she' if they still have a penis?

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by slackercruster, Jan 19, 2017.

?

Should a 'he' be called a 'she' if they still have a penis?

  1. Yes, if a man says he is a woman he is a woman, even with a penis.

    6 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. No, if you got a penis you are a man.

    29 vote(s)
    54.7%
  3. Other - explain

    18 vote(s)
    34.0%
  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Granted.

    My position was only that sex is Absolutly binary. That anything outside tree male and female binary was not a sex. I didn't not mean that they were not a person deserving of 100% equality.
     
    DoctorWho likes this.
  2. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It seems like the point of contention is not whether or not sex is binary, but whether or not gender is separate from sex (the internal vs the physical) and whether gender is binary or not.
     
  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well if gender was separate from sex there would be no such thing as transgender. The prefix trans implies a separation. A crossing of spectrum if you will. If gender is separate from sex then there is no Spectrum to cross. And the man that wears high heels and lipstick and a dress and prefers sex with men would just be called a heterosexual woman.

    So I don't think they are completely separate.
     
  4. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is a crossing of the spectrum from the side of what is initially assumed from the physical appearance (and rightly so IMHO, as trans is the exception not the rule) to the identity that emerges. Or in some cases, with the gender flexible, having enough of both aspects to encompass both.

    Your first error is conflating gender identity with sexual orientation. Not all MtF, since you must specify, are attracted to men. The same can be said of the FtM's reguarding women. As far as high heels, makeup and dresses, those are all things that were once the domain of men, so such things are purely social constructs and have nothing to do with what one identifies as. Drag Queens, who identify as male gender wise, prefer what is currently considered feminine.

    Gender, if we assume it to be the identity, doesn't develop, or at least become evident until later in life. Thus the crossing, as noted above.
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Identities? I'm not talking about that.



    Gender identity isn't relevant.

    What sombody identifies as has nothing to do with gender.

    Identity is irrelevant.
     
  6. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15,501
    Likes Received:
    3,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do not see why any of this need concern or be defined by anyone but the infinitesimal amount of people involved.

    At most, just do not let them use your blarsted bathrooms..
    Mount armed guards to check everyone's baggage .....
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    what identity? It doesn't I was never talking about identity I was talking about gender. If I can identify as a potato or 14 people and anything else conceivable then there is no way to quantify identity so discussion of it in this regard is rather pointless.

    What on earth are you talking about?
     
  8. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    • Insulting or personally attacking other posters (Rule 2)
    Do a DNA check. One's gender is determined before birth.

    <Rule 2/3>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2018
  9. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    15,668
    Likes Received:
    1,957
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    DNA doesn't actually define sex. All children are conceived as female. The hormones which determine the sex are actually not introduced until several months into a pregnancy.
     
  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd say anatomy. The way we decide a puppy is male or female is anatomy.

    When a woman goes in to get her ultra sound they aren't looking for hormones.
     
  11. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    15,668
    Likes Received:
    1,957
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it's hormones. A person becomes male because they have more testosterone in their bodies than estrogen, and they become female because of the opposite.
     
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No again, when the doctor uses the ultra sound to see the sex of the baby they aren't looking for hormones.

    Not sure how this is an argument against how we define sex.
     
  13. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    15,668
    Likes Received:
    1,957
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, but hormones are what causes sexual traits to develop. There are women and men who have sexual traits of the other gender because of hormonal imbalances. Men with breasts, women with non-functioning penises, sometimes in addition to vaginas. Hormonally, they still hormonally one gender, but their other hormones are at such as level that it can cause them to develop intergender traits.
     
  14. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which can still be different than gender, which is how one identifies. Such physical traits can make it easier to see why one might not identify as their births sex. But like not all handicaps are readily visible, so too with gender (versus physical sex).
     
  15. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Identity is absolutely relevant since the issue is transgenders. Their gender, or gender identity if you must, is the very thing that makes them transgendered.
     
  16. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,920
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sex is determined before birth by DNA, assuming no variants. Gender not so much, or maybe so, but not as we once thought. Gender is the self view, how one sees themself. Sex is the physical traits.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2018
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well Yes of course.

    Sure
     
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I disagree you can identify as a potato and it means every bit as much is if you identified as the opposite sex.

    their gender is biological. Identity is not. Being transgender means that identify with the opposite gender from what they are. It's why the word to trans is in front of the word gender. If it was all just based on whatever we identified it as we would just call it gender there would be no such thing as transgender. Trans means across or away from.
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I disagree gender has nothing to do with views. Gender is the expression of sex. AKA physical traits.
     
  20. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender being anything aside from one's genome is political nonsense.
     
  21. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you reject the concept of gender and sex not to being synonyms why are you even participating in this discussion?
     
  22. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Because gender/sex is only relevant if one is (almost always) Male or Female. There are some hermaphrodites with both traits. There are also some XXY, and XYY variants, that are still Male or Female.

    The rest is just junk science brought forth by Marxists in the Humanities. It does not matter what one thinks they are or how they behave. One's sex/gender is just male or female.
     
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,280
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No argument from me about this.

    Yes, gender can be synonymous with sex based on how it's used. But it can also refer to how feminine or masculine something seems based on appearance or personality. This isn't really a Marxist thing it's really how we tell men and women apart without having to look at their groin or have a DNA spectrum analysis done on them.

    Again if you reject everything that is underlined first I have no idea how you select a mate if you are picky on which sex they are, and second I have no idea why you would post in this thread.

    I know and I even agree that gender has been expanding beyond the classic definition based on some really absurd reasoning and I think that is what you mean by Marxist humanities. But just because some political movement is attempting to co-opt a word does it mean the word never meant anything.
     
  24. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    3,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He/she is a good term.
     
  25. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am speaking from a scientific viewpoint. In reference to how a person sould identify themselves based on their innate physical attributes. When speaking about those with mental and behavioral disorders, those that dress up in costumes of animals (Furries), transvestites, transsexuals and so on, one can say they look male or female or whatever other terms one wishes.
     

Share This Page