Should America fight Russia if they back Syria?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Matthewthf, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with Trump sending a message that chemical warfare is wrong and should not be allowed by any country but I don't support a war against Russia and attacking Syria may escalate one. Part of me is hoping that Putin and Russia secretly had this planned and we can avoid a war with Russia but everything Russia has said and done recently has been in support of Syria.

    Russia is one of the three super powers in the world next to America and China and Putin has really built up his military. If America goes to war with Russia I have two things that I am worried about. First is the possibility of China supporting Russia. Now China does not always get along with Russia but China also does not always get along with America and I was told China supports Iran. If Russia and China were to side against America then North Korea and Iran and Syria would probably join them and I am not so sure we could win that war.

    The other thing I worry about is the fact Russia has nuclear missiles that could wipe out America. Does anybody think Russia would use them against us in a war? It is a scary thought if the bombs start dropping because there is nowhere to go. America may not exist if that happened.

    I agree with Trump's reason for the attack but I don't agree with pissing off Russia or Putin. WW3 is not going to be a good thing for anyone. My opinion of Trump has changed and i'm not sure I like this choice he made. Putin may be evil but he is also powerful and a war with Russia could be far worse then WW2 was.

    Does anybody else think we should leave Russia alone or am I the only one?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  2. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You agree with attacking a sovereign nation without provocation and go it alone without consulting with Congress?? In the meantime mum is the word on NK who have supposedly threatened us with nukes? Is there something wrong with this picture??
     
  3. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it possible that Trump knew about the attack before it happened and planned this whole thing and if so why? What would his agenda be? Someone said Trump was behind this whole thing. I am trying to figure out what is going on and would like to hear what everyone else thinks about this? I honestly don't think Trump had anything to do with the chemical attack or knew about it but anything is possible I guess.
     
  4. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Aaaaaan this whole thing could been avoided with Hillarys first threat way back when, yet you guys made us coward behind Trump...Possibly the first mistake you people made was thinking Trump was competent?
     
  5. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someone asked what it would take for Trump supporters to stop supporting Trump and for me a war with Russia would be the final straw. I will not support Trump or even the Republican party if we go to war with Russia. I think that a war with Russia will turn into WW3 and devastate the entire world. I wonder what Putin is thinking right now?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
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  6. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you still support him for attacking a little nation that was not a threat to us and won't ever be?
     
  7. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    With Trump you just never know. Way too much narcissism and wealth worship tied up in everything he does. I sure hope we don't go to war with Russia over a middle eastern country though. I doubt it will come to that, Russia has nothing to gain out of it any more than we do, but both Putin and Trump are headstrong jackasses so who knows at this point.
     
  8. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point. Putin is like Donald Trump. He will not want to back down and he has declared Syria as a ally so unless he and Trump planned this together I don't think he will back down.

    I never expected this from Trump. He had many options to consider and firing missiles was the last option he should have considered. He was quick to make the call and something does not feel right to me. Did he even know with 100% certainty it was Syria? There is 6 nations and possibly as many as 20 terrorist organizations in Syria. He should have made sure it was Syria before taking the action he took. I just hope this does not end badly for us or everyone else in this world that does not want to be in a world war.
     
  9. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it be nice...if someone just knew what they were doing in the white house...someone with experience in politics...possibly their whole lives?
     
  10. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Right, all we can do is hope that the intel confirms without a doubt that Syria was behind it. That's not going to alleviate long-term problems, but the damage from some kind of false flag operation or a military strike on a sovereign country's military based on lies would be with us in both the short and the long term. I hope the facts are on Trump's side in this because for better or worse, with him as our president all Americans are on Trump's "side", and as usual it will be the poor and middle classes that bear the brunt of the backlash.
     
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  11. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No I only agreed with Trump on the issue of chemical warfare and no country should be allowed to use it but Trump had several options and attacking a country backed by a nuclear power is just stupid. So we are not only fighting isis but now Syria and maybe Iran and Russia? Where does it end?

    I know where I am going when I die but I still don't want to see the country I love nuked to death. Putin is not someone you want to piss off. He has come a long way in re building his army and a war with Russia will end badly. A world war can easily be started if 2 of the 3 super powers in the world start fighting with each other.

    I will pray for those who had to suffer the gas attack and for those that may be affected by the possible coming great war.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  12. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My issue is that you support the attack on a sovereign nation without provocation. We were not in danger. Really, is the difference only because it was a chemical attack? So if an ordinary bomb that kill them just the same, I guess nobody care then?? We've been in this situation before. Does Iraq ring a bell? How did that work out for us??
     
  13. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Chemical weapons are banned internationally. When a country violates that ban, are they subject to military consequences? Or should they just be condemned verbally?
     
  14. zbr6

    zbr6 Banned

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    Russia will respond as it usually does with aggressive acts that aren't targeted at the US but are intended to raise the eyebrows of the US.

    But war with Russia?

    **** ...

    We might as well just shoot ourselves if ever comes to that because that is GG NO RE.
     
  15. hardcash

    hardcash Member

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    It is the biggest stupid thing you can do.
    Now China may replaces the USA as the biggest economy in the world at any moment.

    1. GDP
    1.1) USA helped Japan just after WWII.

    In 1945, the GDP of America was 50% of the world.
    In 1945, the GDP of Japan was very small.
    In 1980's, Japan almost replaces the USA as the biggest economy in the world.
    Japan has a bigger buying power than any European country.

    1.2) In 2000, the GDP of America was 8 times bigger than China.
    Clinton let China to join WTO.

    Then China becomes the world factory.
    Now China has a bigger buying power than America.
    Now the median household income in the US is lower than the year 2000.

    Hillary Clinton said: I'm Putting Bill Back In Charge of fixing economy If I'm Elected.


    2) Defence
    Jimmy Carter said that a powerful China is good for America.
    Jimmy Carter said yes to export technologies and weapons to China.

    Chinese leaders and generals declared a few times that China will nuke the USA.
    Zhu_Chenghu, Wiki

    Chairman Mao: “I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone.”
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  16. hardcash

    hardcash Member

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    And the USA will be the the united states of Latinos very soon.
    White Russia Vs
    Latino America?

    1) Population

    White population was about 1/4 of the world population.
    Now it is about 10%.
    In the near future it will be only 7%.

    2) Demographics - America
    In 1950, white population was about 90% in USA.
    in 2014, white population is about 60% in USA

    In 2050, white population will be less than 50% in USA.
    In 2100, white population will be 1/3 in USA.


    Latinos have passed whites as the largest ethnic group in California in 2015.
    California, in 2015, white population was 38%.
    Texas, in 2015, white population was 43%.

    The Majority of American Babies Are Now Minorities (2012) - The Census Bureau

    Fighting age
    In the USA, whites having the oldest median age, 42, Hispanics have the youngest, 27.

    Non-Hispanic whites, Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  17. hardcash

    hardcash Member

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    About America, one thing is for sure, America will have a Latino army.

    1) Latinos have passed whites as the largest ethnic group in California in 2015.

    California, in 2015, white population was 38%.
    Texas, in 2015, white population was 43%.

    2.) Fighting age
    In the USA, whites having the oldest median age, 42, Hispanics have the youngest, 27.

    Non-Hispanic whites, Wikipedia
     
  18. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

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    If the view from the outside is interesting, then it seems to me that Trump just freaked out (I do not know how much Google will automatically translate the term). On Trump long pressed with all these accusations of playing on the side of Russia, that he decided to show his determination and strength. And I took the first opportunity to strike.
     
  19. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

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    For a start, it would be useful first to figure out what happened there and who is to blame for it. There is no evidence that Assad used chemical weapons.
     
  20. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    You all being afraid is exactly what putin wants...

    Putin shows off all of his best weapons raising his tail like a peacock.. "Look at all the power we have! Be afraid!!"

    Meanwhile the USA is just using our ancient technology in our escapades, old planes, missiles, etc..

    We do the opposite of brag, our best technology remains top secret because we have no need to show off like putin.. Look at our ancient top secret stealth planes that we unveiled and imagine what we have now..

    Go ahead and give us a reason to show off some of our newer toys..

    ESPECIALLY OUR MISSILE DEFENSE!!
     
  21. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what the evidence is, none of us are there for the president's daily briefings and we are not told everything and shouldn't be told.

    As for a war with Russia it is doubtful because Putin is shrewd and knows a war with us would gain him nothing. The use of nuclear weapons in a war with Russia would not give anyone an advantage because it would be difficult for anyone to rule over a nuclear wasteland and Putin knows this.
     
  22. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we had left Assad alone and let Assad put down his little rebellion chances are none of this, to include the ISIS strong hold and headquarters Syria would have come into being or happened. There wouldn't be tons of refugees fleeing Syria, chemical weapons wouldn't have been used, Russia wouldn't be in Syria. Syria more or less would be at peace and stable. True Assad, not a nice guy would still be in power, but what the heck.

    The thing is that a lot of civilians would have died if we let Assad use his military and crush the rebellion, rebels, perhaps ISIS in the beginning. But a lot of civilian deaths at the beginning of this campaign which would have been quickly over dwarfs the death, destruction, suffering, refugees fleeing, which is continuing by 100's of percent as this war, situation, has been ongoing for around 10 years now. A short war even if with heaving casualties always has a lot less that a prolonged war which we have now. This fact is always lost.

    Too many people look at war as a video game today. It isn't. We can't control what other countries do all the time, we can't be the moral conscious if the world or try to force our morality on everyone and every other country. When we attack a country via cruse missiles we are still attacking that country regardless of the reason. That is stating we are at war with the country we attacked. No formal declaration is needed. We do these attacks because we can and we have the military power and we use that power on countries that usually can't fight back or get us at home.

    We are not back in the day when two armies lined up on the battlefield facing each other leaving all the civilians and non-combatants alone. There is no gentleman's war as much as we try to make war a gentleman's sport. We won the revolution because we fought what was conceived as dirty at the time.

    Should we have used our missiles in response to the chemical attack of Syrians on Syrians? I don't know. I do think this is a very dangerous game. Especially with Russia now deployed in Syria. Do I condone the chemical attack,no. But I am very leery of our response to it also. I think if all of this was up to me, I would concentrate on defeating ISIS and doing it as quickly as possible in both Iraq and Syria and be done with it. Doing it quickly would in the long run hold down casualties. If Assad remains in power in Syria, so be it. Syria is a Syrian problem unless they can somehow threaten us which Assad has shown up till now not willing to do.
     
  23. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Dude, there's more at stake than who has the biggest dick here. You realize that right? That war actually affects people beyond the dick measuring contest?
     
  24. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

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    Coulda woulda shoulda might be fun but maybe we should look at what should be done now and not crying over the spilled milk. Russia will do nothing, they only attack countries who don't have the power to fight back. Talks will be ongoing with Russia but now we have the advantage that Russia knows they are not dealing with Obama any longer.
     

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