Should Americans have been more willing to sacrifice lives for the economy?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Jan 21, 2021.

?

Should Americans have been more willing to sacrifice lives for the economy?

  1. Yes. The measures taken to protect lives were to extreme, and did more harm than good.

    7 vote(s)
    31.8%
  2. No. Lives are more important than property.

    13 vote(s)
    59.1%
  3. We struck close to the right balance between lives and economy.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  4. Other - Define below

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1,853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Should Americans have been more willing to sacrifice lives for the economy?

    Did we go to far in trying to protect lives that in doing so, we have indebted our future enormously and needlessly? Destroyed the economy in the name of trying to save more lives?

    Or did we not go far enough? Should we have done even more to provide aid to individuals and small businesses?

    Did we do a good job of trying to balance out personal needs vrs economic needs?

    None of the above? Answer below then. :)
     
  2. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1,853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Personally, I thought our response was woefully inadequate. We told people to stay home, and watched them loose their job, and then did very little in trying to provide aid and assistance.

    The aid and assistance that WAS given out, was woefully mismanaged, and SOOOO many people who shouldn't have gotten anything, or, at the least not nearly as much as they did, took far to much out of the very little aid that was available.
     
    Sleep Monster and Bowerbird like this.
  3. maxLiberal

    maxLiberal Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    in Liberalworld everybody would have a home to isolate in while remaining safe, vital, and viable during pandemics.
    buku bux and lives saved right there.
    survival $ and food would be available easily, our farmers and distributers thrive while people focus on other priorities.
    our infrastructure would be better than the polio days for vaccines and scientific info, no waste due to myriad unknowns.
    nobody is allowed to get excessively stupid screaming about rights they don't even have, the public remains calm.
    Hillary coulda done this easily her 1st year in office. we wouldn't be a shitholed nation thx to traitor trump now needing Joe.
     
    Sallyally and Bowerbird like this.
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Should Americans have been more willing to sacrifice lives for the economy?

    I don't accept your premise at all. There is no evidence that closing businesses had meaningfully saved lives. In fact the evidence is to contrary. At best it has delayed deaths. There is no question that we should fight the virus but by creating a second crisis. Should we have destroyed the jobs and dreams of millions by creating the new crisis? No.
     
    Dayton3 and Esdraelon like this.
  5. maxLiberal

    maxLiberal Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    with leadership a year ago we'd be past this now. what happened to that priority? isn't protecting US a President's #1 job?
     
    Bowerbird and MJ Davies like this.
  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    We didn’t even have a mask mandate or an effective stimulus response. It was never going to be enough to save lives or the “economy” whatever that is. We threw lives away for nothing
     
    Sallyally and Bowerbird like this.
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is your opinion and one that I don't share. The only thing that will put the virus to bed is herd immunity and the best way to achieve herd immunity is vaccination. If it weren't for leadership a year ago we wouldn't yet have a vaccine.
     
    Heartburn likes this.
  8. maxLiberal

    maxLiberal Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    that's all after the fact, this was 90% avoidable and 99% combatable, instead we have few willing or knowing how to mask up properly.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If masks were the answer we could have finished this already. Unfortunately it isn't true. Herd immunity is the answer and we are following a path achieve it. Masks certainly don't hurt anything and people should wear them. But they aren't a magic bullet.
     
    LoneStarGal likes this.
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Thing is - if the pandemic had been handled right in the first place you would have to do neither.
    Australia has learnt that effective quarantine and contact tracing means short localised shutdowns
    https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/collaboration-in-crisis-reflecting-on-australias-covid-19-response
    we didn’t get it all correct

    https://theconversation.com/4-ways-...was-a-triumph-and-4-ways-it-fell-short-139845

    But our numbers are so low that we can use a unique strategy to identify if anyone in the community has become infected - we test the sewerage
     
    Sallyally and Kranes56 like this.
  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Herd immunity is a guarantee of dangerous mutations arising eg UK and South Africa, Brazil and other yet to be uncovered
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Viruses that no longer exist cannot mutate.
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Herd immunity does not remove the virus:roll:
     
    Sallyally, Daniel Light and Kranes56 like this.
  14. maxLiberal

    maxLiberal Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    nobody ever said masks were the only answer, in fact from day 1 they're virtually useless as far as self defense cos no research has been funded to know, manufacture, and distribute a damn thing nationally FREE of charge with mandatory 100% compliance across the board IF ONLY TO STRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF NIPPING IT IN THE BUD. research and containment was needed to be back to business as usual by now. I don't see Biden doing enuf yet either, that sucks. the priority was all public perception from the get go to win hearts and minds into complying happily for the nation's best interest ...instead traitor trump used it as deception cos that's his bunker mentality to weaponize everything and instantly his flock was convinced of a ton of BS and the war was lost.
     
  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is the only thing that does. Why do we vaccinate? To achieve herd immunity of course.
     
    LoneStarGal likes this.
  16. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Has anyone else noticed how often we see posts like this one :above: from the hyperliberal Left?

    Everyone would have an idyllic lifestyle, with "buku bux", "a home to isolate in while remaining safe", etc., etc., etc.

    Oh, and we could have had it if ONLY we stupid Americans had had the WISDOM to elect Hillary in 2016! Indeed, that poster extols, "Hillary coulda done this easily her 1st year in office"!

    But notice also -- there's never an explanation of how these miracles were going to occur. There's never any logical descriptions about how all this staggering amount of wealth would just pop out of nowhere and be equitably distributed. No data. No links to reliable information sources. Nothing.

    And there's a reason for this! They all believe what their favorite 'poster-politician' believes --

    [​IMG] :eekeyes: -- "The intellectual rigor is astounding...!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  17. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The left doesn’t have to. Because Biden is doing them. You just have to look to see.
     
  18. maxLiberal

    maxLiberal Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    it's easy to lay out but instantly the triggered buzzwords would start flying with heaps of typical derision more than we see here. wtf are rightys SO afraid of? money? traitor trump lied he wouldn't golf and then wasted a year's worth of time doing it at buku tax $$$ down the toilet in the worst ways. but money for needs? nope! never! what's wrong with everybody having a free home so we save $trillions annually?
     
  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, ol' Joe's off to one HELL of a start, and he hasn't even been 'there' a full week yet!

    Aside: right now, everyone in Western Europe is paying the equivalent of more than $5.00 USD per gallon of regular gasoline. How many libs will still be cheering when Biden's budding policies begin taking hold and we pay that -- AND PROBABLY MORE -- over here?

    Oh, and no matter what 'sacrifices' we're willing to make for the economy during this 'pandemic event', more and more evidence is surfacing every day that not only are there new virus mutations that are spread more easily and likely more LETHAL, now there's increasing doubt that the vaccines that we have already rolled out "at warp speed" are effective against the new mutations!

    [​IMG]. "I have not yet begun to defile myself!" -- borrowed from Doc Holliday, in "Tombstone".... :cowboy:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  20. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh, darn it. And here I thought you were going to inform all of us Right-wing 'knuckle-draggers' exactly what Hillary was going to do in her first year as president that would have made America into a splendid, egalitarian Utopia instead of the 'shithole' that Trump created!

    Got anything? Or, as is usual in so many of your posts, just more of nothing but unfounded opinion and bloviation...? :confusion:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  21. maxLiberal

    maxLiberal Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    answer my friggin question
     
  22. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    ...how do you get from gas to covid?
     
  23. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your "friggin question" was, "what's wrong with everybody having a free home so we save $trillions annually?" And before you are willing to provide any factual support for any of the wild claims you made about how Hillary could have saved us all in her first year as president, you demand an answer to your question from me....

    OK, there's nothing wrong with everybody having a home, Maxy, but who the hell is going to PAY for all those homes...? Where's the money going to come from?

    I hate the injustice of the U. S. Tax Code more than anyone I know, but it has been proven that even if we taxed (and actually COLLECTED) 99% of what the wealthy really should have to pay as a 'fair-share' in personal income taxes, it wouldn't even make a DENT in the national debt!

    But I'm hampered in my effort to answer your question because, no matter how hard I try, I just don't see WHERE all the money is going to come from to put everyone into a FREE home. Moreover, I don't see how giving everyone a FREE house is going to save the country "$trillions annually".

    So, if you really do want me to answer your question, you're going to have to come up with SOME kind of information to add to this conversation, because I truly do not know what the hell you're referring to.... Where's the "friggin" money to do all these Hillary-style miracles supposed to come from...?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  24. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The thread topic is: "Should Americans have been more willing to sacrifice lives for the economy?"

    The price of transportation fuel and energy in general are vitally important components in the economy.

    The implied sacrifice(s) are those entailed in the pandemic COVID-19 virus.

    I'm sure you can, uh, 'fathom' the connection now...?

    The 'trade-off' that has been identified is one in which we must sacrifice a certain 'acceptable' number of COVID deaths in order to sustain enough commerce to nourish an economy that will continue to wither and die if we don't. That was the conundrum we faced about ten months ago.

    Oh, but NOW, good ol' Joe has just decided to take a drastic step which is GUARANTEED to jack up energy prices in this country, further imperiling the already gut-punched economy. Now, because of that, should we allow even more COVID-related deaths in order to compensate for the inevitable effect of Biden's peevish, politics-driven, and rather STOOPID decision to hamper domestic energy production and thereby increase energy prices...?
     
  25. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think the question of more or less willingness to sacrifice lives is the question we should be asking.

    Given that the first cases of Covid started in September, and given that we have millions of fairly wealthy Chinese citizens, green card holders, students and businessmen regularly traveling back and forth to China, I'd say that the horse had left the barn before the global lockdown panic ever began. There was too much virus circulating, plus there are also more than 50% of the population who work "essential" jobs for lockdowns to ever effectively work.

    Since we already had waited months too long to notice and isolate infections, then we should not have shut down. At all. Wash your hands, wear a mask, social distance and stay home if your sick. That's exactly what we're going back to doing now that Biden won and Democrats a suddenly opening everything back up again. Common sense, traditional methods of avoiding get a cold or flu work for a "new" virus just as well.

    Option two would have been to alert the public with about 3-4 weeks notice that they planned to shut down a good chunk of small business activity and taken that time to mail checks to businesses and "non-essential" employees who would be impacted before implementing house arrests. "We're going to send you money and then ask you to stay home," would have been far better received than, "Stay home while we squabble over whether, when and how much to try to reverse the destruction we intentionally imposed on your lives".

    A global public panic by our own elected leaders resulted in the worst of possible decisions and outcomes. That happened in just about every country on the planet. I hope we learn something from this. Lockdowns do not work because we are never going to "notice" a contagious virus until it's already out of control.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021

Share This Page