Should Democrats urge the impeachment of Donald Trump over the Mueller report?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Bush Lawyer, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I already did
     
  2. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Not before you posted that abortion that I quoted. *LOL*
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its likely your source didn't provide you with the full context of that quote.

    He said his presidency was over because the investigation makes it impossible to get anything done, not because he expected it to find any wrongdoing.

    "According to notes written by Hunt, when Sessions told the President that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m ****ed.” The President became angry and lambasted the Attorney General for his decision to recuse from the investigation, stating, “How could you let this happen, Jeff?” The President said the position of Attorney General was his most important appointment and that Sessions had “let [him] down,” contrasting him to Eric Holder and Robert Kennedy. Sessions recalled that the President said to him, “you were supposed to protect me,” or words to that effect. The President returned to the consequences of the appointment and said, “Everyone tells me if you get one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won’t be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    No, he said he did not say.

    Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.​

    He explained why he did not say.

    Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person's conduct "constitutes a federal offense." U.S. Dep't of Justice, Justice Manual §9-27. (2018 Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast , a prosecutor's judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator.

    The concerns about the fairness of such a determination would be heightened in the case of a sitting President, where a federal prosecutor's accusation of a crime, even in an internal report, could carry consequences that extend beyond the realm of criminal justice. OLC noted similar concerns about sealed indictments. Even if an indictment were sealed during the President's term, OLC reasoned, "it would be very difficult to preserve [an indictment's] secrecy, "and if an indictment became public, "[t]he stigma and opprobrium" could imperil the President's ability to govern." Although a prosecutor's internal report would not represent a formal public accusation akin to an indictment, the possibility of the report's public disclosure and the absence of a neutral adjudicatory forum to review its findings counseled against potentially determining "that the person's conduct constitutes a federal offense." Justice Manual §9-27.​
    We saw Trump hint at pardons for his underlings who didn't rat.

    When are you going to show concern about Russia interfering in our election?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    They planted fake news stories.
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You come across like a Russian operative.
     
  7. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with you in that we should "give it a rest" & get on with our lives, Mueller actually DID find evidence of collusion--just not enough to satisfy the degree needed to charge Trump with criminal intent. There was also the question still lingering whether anyone can charge a working President with ANY crime while in office. That indecision leaves open the question whether our belief that in America "no one is above the law" really applies.
     
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  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    One wonders what you elected him to do when he gave 85% of the personal tax cuts to people making more than $400,000 per year and he's trying to cut entitlements, both things he promised he wouldn't do. He said he would fix health care, fast. He hasn't. He's doubled the deficit to $1t. The economy is growing about as fast as it was in 2014.

    [​IMG]

    Real wages have increased about 1% in more than two years.

    [​IMG]

    The Orange Oaf hasn't delivered.
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Should Democrats urge the impeachment of Donald Trump over the Mueller report?

    Of course. What would be more entertaining?
     
  10. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    So did you guys.
     
  11. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Thats right

    Sometimes I dont review

    But I did correct that one about a minute before the spelling nazis arrived
     
  12. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    "You guys?" Who are you talking about? I'm not a Democrat, and I didn't support Useless Hillary or Obama.
     
  13. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not you, but a long time member of the Australian government.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/...-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

    Alexander John Gosse Downer AC is a former Australian politician and diplomat who was leader of the Liberal Party from 1994 to 1995, Minister for Foreign Affairs from 1996 to 2007, and High Commissioner to the United Kingdom from 2014 to 2018.
     
  14. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Whoever Langly Man supports is a sure loser
     
  15. Papastox

    Papastox Well-Known Member

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    It's the Democrats' funeral, but I could live with that. Instead of a hearse, it would be a clown car.
     
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  16. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mueller did the country a disservice through his mischievous part two of the report regarding possible obstruction of justice. It was not his job to speculate but to discover whether a crime had been committed, and all that despite no evidence going in. He certainly found no evidence of 'collusion'.
     
  17. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where were they published? Did the Russians refer to the US President in disparaging ways or was that job left to the Democrats?
     
  18. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was also Mike Rogers, so the story goes, who warned Donald Trump that his offices in Trump Tower were being bugged. Trump moved out shortly thereafter. Rogers kept himself clean, one of the few who did.
     
  19. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    And how did Downer interfere? All he did was pass on relevant intelligence to his US counterparts.
     
  20. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There was no 'relevant intelligence'.
     
  21. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ONly because the trump team was too ignorant to actually engage in a conspiracy. Or didn't you read the report?
    And trump sure as hell obstructed justice.

    Mueller found enough to issue 100+ indictments but of course that is nothing in trumpland.

    Trump being a lying cheating crook is not something that can be willed away by his supporters. His dereliction of duty with regard to russian interference because the King Birther was worried about the legitimacy of his electoral victory is not the stuff of greatness. Its the the stuff of crass self interest.
     
  22. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and you know this how? Wild stab in the dark? Crystal Ball? informants in the intell community?

    Or maybe brietbart and CNS?
     
  23. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're not familiar with this topic. You should try somewhere else.
     
  24. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    1. I disagree. Mueller's job was to look for collusion, whether by the President or his associates. Considering the number of criminal charges levied against associates of Trump, it was by no means a waste of time or effort. Mueller didn't find sufficient evidence to charge Trump personally, but that may be because of the DOJ regulations saying a President can't be charged for a felony while serving as President, rather than a lack of evidence. Mueller left it up to the House to decide.
    2. Wrong. Mueller DID find evidence of collusion, but either insufficient to base charges on, or left dormant simply because Mueller was forbidden to act against the President due to DOJ rules. Trump is NOT innocent here.
     
  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I sure as hell don't support the Orange Oaf.
     

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