Should education be left to the states to administer?

Discussion in 'Education' started by SillyAmerican, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    While I agree there is no authority for the Department of Education in that devious document, the Constitution, what makes you think the state or local politicians are any better? None of it is education, it is all indoctrination. Education disappeared more than a century and a half ago. Education in the immortal words of Ben Franklin:

    “Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn.”
    Benjamin Franklin
     
  2. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    National college admissions? Are you referring to that higher center of indoctrination that but brings a being into the universe of being a debt slave after paying ridicilous sums to learn what should have been mastered in grade school back when there was education.

    Actually, what is deemed a school education only consists of reading, writing and arithmetic. After that you are on your own to read and learn all you ever care to know. Knowledge is there for all to know, all one need do is seek. Then there are those that wish to remain ignorant and turns to college as a redemption of that ignorance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  3. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Going into a massive debt program to earn a piece of paper that qualifies one to be at the head of the list for employment at the local fast food doesn't say much for the individual. There is no such thing as free, somebody has to pay, what you are trying to infer is that should not be you. Yep, that is "education".
     
  4. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Tuition down, where? Classes used to be $5-20 per credit hour.
     
  5. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The three siblings in my family who went to college are making more than the 3 who didn't even though only one has a job that requires a graduate education. They aren't lottery tickets, but they can help you make better decisions and get ahead faster.
     
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  6. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    A false delusion based on a false premise that has created a false dichotomy upon which you have posted the manifestation of that dichotomy.
     
  7. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps back in the 1950s when you were eligible for college.
    In the 1980s, late, it was about $100/ credit.

    In the 1950's new car cost about $1000 also.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  8. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I spent 6 years on local school board, and local control is deeply flawed. There were no qualifications to be on the school board - basically, if you were willing to give up evenings, you could get voted onto the school board. I shudder when I hear of places where they insist on creationism being put on equal terms with reality.
    The world is shrinking - the US is losing ground in Science and math - we need national standards.

    I am sure of one thing - DeVos is not going to be good. Education for profit is another bad idea.
     
  9. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only in your alternate universe in which you know everything about my family, what their jobs are and what their career paths have been.
     
  10. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct.
    I feel investing in education is one of the wisest investments we can make.
    I say freeze defense spending and put more money toward education, and we'd become a stronger nation.
     
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  11. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is strange that I never hear the people who are opposed to more college spending advocating for doing away with selective re-enlistment bonuses for the military.
     
  12. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I admit I don't write well the case of people with several cognitive disabilities and one affecting my mental processing so my mind tends to fire off wrong enough to be a problem. The correction several drugs cause severe depression enough to make taking them worse than the problem by a long shot. My reading comprehension in 8th grade was at the 12th grade level so I maybe didn't write well in school but could understand what I read an important skill maybe more important than writing. But my IQ is 125 I just have issues using it.

    Now does this make me unworthy of commenting on this topic? I'm likely a good example a High School Diploma, which I managed with a lot of work was wasted on me. I would have been better off with eight years of elementary education and then learned job skills I did well in accountancy classes I could have worked on that for two years and entered that kind of work when I was sixteen maybe adding in with it general employment classes adding a year.

    I did audit some college classes but for personal interest.

    I'm just saying this education should be the parents responsibility assisted by the government and the Federal authority should be limited to agencies helping in preparing the workforce needs, advising the states, on trends and areas the government sees as important areas of skill development not through a Department of Education.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  13. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Don't need to know anything about your family, it is not to them I responded, it was you either, it was your statement.

    If by alternate universe you mean a universe where adults take responsibility for their actions instead of buying into the false dichotomies keeping them good little citizen slaves, you got it. Imagine taking a couple of courses at the local University and realize, "is that all I'm going to be going down this path" and finding that totally unacceptable. Then imagine all these individuals with doctorates and masters having to work for you, I relished this dilemma.
     
  14. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    I didn't learn anything in public school. The problem is that the state has taken the idea of "tabula rasa" to extremes - everyone has to learn "something about everything" instead of "everything about something". If you wish to become a historian, but do not know algebra, you won't pass highschool. It is absolutely ridiculous.

    Because of this insanity, students put more effort on the subjects they hate and suck at instead of really specialising and improving on what they love and have talent for - I only had talent for language and interest for social science, but I was absolutely terrible at math (found that shi* boring as hell). But in order to graduate HS, I had to pass math.

    I ended up sacrificing highest grade in Swedish, English and French to focus on getting a pass in math. Luckily, I did manage to pass but I graduated high school not knowing anything valuble. :laughing:

    Ended up studying peace and conflict and social anthropology at uni, subjects where I - not even once - needed to solve some stupid equation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  15. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Where I went to high school, you were expected to do well in every subject, and the vast majority did do well. Very few failed or dropped out. And the standards were quite high compared to what I see in current American high schools. Every student took 4 years of English, 1 year of literature (Shakespeare), 4 years of mathematics, 2 years of a foreign language, 4 years of science (1 year each of general science, biology, chemistry, physics), 4 years of sports. Every course had an end of year comprehensive final exam, closed book, no calculator or computer or smart phone.

    People should be expected to learn "something about everything", a person should have a decent understanding of a broad range of subjects.
     
  16. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    You forgot the two subjects that has caused the problem as we experience them today, history and government.

    Also, I disagree with what was and what is taught in education, this is not school. Schooling by either a teacher or parents should be to enable children to read, write and understand numbers in however many years it requires to accomplish these goals. From there, education should take over. Education is dependent on the individual, some you just hand a shovel, some go on to technical training, some take exploratory courses in the sciences and languages, and those with the proper aptitude go on to higher learning. Learning is a inherent trait in the human race and most are still learning on the way to the grave.

    Why is it that children are forced to go where it will do them no good rather than encouraging them to pursue their dreams?
     
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  17. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    You spent 6 years on school board doing what? To declare it totally flawed and no qualifications to be there doesn't say much for your tenure, does it?

    National standards, you mean like the Agenda 21 initiative of Common Core? Wonder how much richer Bill Gates will get off Common Core? I know he will enjoy the destruction of common folk children's minds.
     
  18. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I see the explanation for your post in your signature: "Anarchist," - well, I'm done debating you. May I recommend Somalia? No government there.
     
  19. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    So just because it was how it was back in your days it is the way it always has to be? Can't you see that compulsory schooling with compulsory subjects is what has caused the mess in most of Western schools today?

    Apart from the obvious and basic reading/writing- and basic math slills, I see absolutely no reason for someone who aspires to be a linguist how to solve advanced equations or know the whole damn periodic system. Just as someone aspiring to be a programmer has no reeason whatsoever to know what Napoleon Bonaparte's favourite dish was.

    If we let kids specialise in a certain field early, society would benefit in the long run and probably grades would start to rise as students' willingness to learn would return. Of course high school should not even be compulsory. Because it is, a high school diploma is worth absolutely nothing today (bevause everyone owns one). So many people enter university "just because". Then they realise they do not know what they really want. They end up changing majors 200 times and then end up with a worthless degree and gigantic debt.

    State should stay the f*ck out of education. Part of the problem is that teachers aren't free to do as they want. There are strict instructions from the state on how- and what to teach.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  20. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Done, did you start? If it is your recommendation, I would put that on the "absolutely not" list.
     
  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Aaaaaw, how cute. Now we Ancaps for sure haven't heard that one before. :D

    PS. Oh, you like government, eh? I recommend North Korea. HUGE government there. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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  22. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    You realise "education for profit" is exactly what the state is doing, right? Only that they like to keep it a monopoly which is the very reason school is boring as hell and sucks duck's butt.

    "School for profit", i.e. a free market-school would probably solve everything. Or perhaps you do not like "cakes for profit" or "computers for profit" either....
     
  23. margot3

    margot3 Active Member

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    I don't think that's a good idea. In some areas you may have parents who work in scientific fields or have a large number of engineers. Their children typically do better in math and science than in communities that are largely rural or agricultural.
     
  24. margot3

    margot3 Active Member

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    But, they couldn't conjugate the verb to run.
     
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  25. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    So what?
     

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