Should hunting purely for sport be considered poaching?

Discussion in 'Animal Welfare' started by Daggdag, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    And her rhetorical device falls flat on its head when she knew nothing about how hunting.

    On the one hand, you're opposed to hunting for sport. While on the other, you're raging because it's not a "fair game". There's some lack of reason, logic, and consistency on your part here.

    I've not made the claim it's purely for sport, or that it's somehow brave or manly to hunt. Yet, this is your assumption, and it's silly. Hunting is strictly regulated, so any fun any hunter has while doing so, is not "purely for sport", since there's lots of conservation science behind the quotas.
     
  2. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    There are many food pantries in Indiana who will accept donations of wild game meat provided it is properly slaughtered and butchered. There are plenty of butchers and slaughterhouses who are willing to slaughter wild game for a fee, or for free if it is donated to a food shelter in some cases.

    So, at least in Indiana, there is no excuse for not using the meet or donating it.
     
  3. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever done it, or even met somebody who has hunted? Sport hunting is natural for animals that are hunters. A well-fed housecat sport hunts. Why? It's fun.
     
  4. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I don't know any sport hunters who don't eat (or donate) what they shoot. Nice strawman thought. Do you actually know an hunters?
     
  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that every animal that the Trump sons shoot gets eaten by some person in the area. In much of Africa, the sport hunters give the meat that they don't personally eat to the nearest village.

    I guess your granny would rather that the deer be killed by farmers poisoning them, or by getting hit by a car. I don't know anybody who hunts deer to think of it as a brave thing. It's just a way to fill up the freezer, and have fun doing it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  6. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Only guilty animals are targeted.
     
  7. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most I know who would do this actually donate the meat to the Salvation Army, I think. I'm not sure. It is disgusting to hunt for trophies only. Yes, I've hunted. I understand.

    I also understand that we have an obligation to cull herds for their health, but for the herds to be closely monitored for that determination. They do that in my state. At the moment, there is a disease going around killing whitetail deer. If those deer are taken for trophies, it isn't the same. They will only infect more, if left to live or given to food banks.
     
  8. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Nice strawman. Do you actually know any hunters? I do, and I don't know about any who think it's a tough action. Do you have some kind of mental problem? You seem to think strange things about the motivation of hunters. I guess it's the fantasies that go through your head.
     
  9. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you alright? I'm concerned about your relationship with reality. I'm not being nasty. I'm serious.

    You stated you don't mind hunting for food, and with this statement combined with that.....You believe it's okay to hunt deer for food, but only with a knife.

    Therefore, you alienate all humans in history and pre-history, including those of your own race. Some of whom killed not just for food, but to protect themselves from wolves, cougars, bears, lions, leopards, cheetahs, hyenas. wild dogs, tigers, and numerous other predators and pests.

    It's tough to have an open mind these days and perspective. I don't blame you.
     
  10. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    I think this is one of the reasons some people don't like hunters. The whole deal about having "fun while killing animals". It's sort of understandable, when you realize their overall lack of understanding of hunting in general. The pushing of the trigger is just a very small part of hunting, but to a person who has no framework to understand it, it will be the only part of hunting they see.

    I may have been a bit too harsh on him saying his grandmother was stupid though. She might have been smart, but all smart people say something utterly retarded sometimes. And that was pretty stupid.
     
  11. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    The fun isn't the killing part. The fun is being part of nature. Personally, I think most anti-hunters are modern day puritans. They are against the fun aspect of hunting. If it were a miserable experience, they might not be so much against it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  12. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    Agree. But I reckon some hunters find the killing part as THE main attraction. I have no problem with this, as long as they follow the rules and regulations laid out. But I see how people too far away from any sort of hunting culture would object to it.

    But really, if the hunters were only in it for the killing part, they'd get a job at a slaughterhouse and call it a day. Get paid instead of paying. Yet, this is not what most hunters do. (Not trying to demean those working at a slaughterhouse btw, that too is much more than just "killing".)
     
  13. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    GENERAL QUESTION


    I live in a rural area where hunting is very popular however I don't hunt and have no intention of hunting. I do target practice & have quite a bit of experience with firearms.
    My question is this: would you consider it wrong for me to kill the coyotes who have, so far, killed 2 of my domestic cats that I rescued as kittens? I also have 2 small dogs that are also rescued animals. I try to keep all my domestic pets in their fenced in yard but they occasionally escape.
    All opinions are welcome.
    Thanks
     
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Are you allowed to shoot in your back yard? If so, I'd say get a hunting license and start shooting every coyote that you see. Coyotes are far from endangered, and, IMHO, your pets are more important than coyote life. If you live east of the Mississippi, I think it's even more important that you kill coyotes--they didn't move east until the 20th century.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  15. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks, yes, we have a small farm in Central VA & I have my own target range as do many of my neighbors. I'm not sure if I'll even need a hunting license but I appreciate your bringing that point up so I'll ask.
    I appreciate your input.
     
  16. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    Check what your local laws says about hunting coyotes. Do everything legally, and there won't be any problem.
     
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  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks. The tricky part will be hitting the coyote after I've assembled my new Acme catapult........Beep, Beep!
     
  18. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    How are the US hunting laws in general btw? Do hunters need to take courses or get licenses to hunt everywhere, or is it more about just following the laws, and you're good? For example pest control on private property, do you need licenses or courses for that? At least here in Norway, it's possible to get a permit for a firearm, even if you don't hunt, if you need it for pest control to protect your business, but those cases are rare.

    Either way, I advise taking a hunter's course, even if you don't plan on hunting. It's a nice way to get into the laws and regulations, and it's quite interesting to learn stuff.
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Better safe than sorry. Hunting licenses (at least locally) are about $20-$30. The fine for hunting without a license is over $500, and your guns/vehicle can be confiscated.
     
  20. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the state. In most states that I'm aware of, hunters below a certain age have to take hunter safety courses in order to buy a license. Licenses are usually state wide. Some licenses require special permits to hunt, say on state or federal wildlife management areas, or to hunt certain animals. (Out west, you often have to apply to a lottery to get a "tag" to shoot an elk (large deer relative similar to a stag) or a moose (large deer that in Europe is called an elk)). Usually for pest control beyond rats, a person has to get a hunting license. I do agree that a hunter's safety course is a good idea. I took two as a youth. (the first to be able to get a hunting license, the second because it was free, and my high school class was taking it). Usually doesn't have much about laws and regulations, it's usually about how to hunt safely. More of a gun usage and transportation course, but also about safety rules for hunting, like wearing blaze orange clothing.
     
  21. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those hunters who leave most or all the remains behind are allowing other important members of the ecosystem to eat: Vultures, coyotes, worms and flies.

    Humans are hardly the only creatures on Earth that "kill for sport" as there are many examples of big cats, wolves, dolphins, elephants and primates doing the same thing.

    Don't you think any of these animals caught in unjust killings by naturalists and biologists should be punished by being put in a cage, or culled?
     
  22. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    None of those animals hunt solely for the enjoyment of killing another animal. They hunt to survive. They only kill when they are hungry, or if they sense danger. Humans are the only creatures that kill solely for the enjoyment of killing..
     
  23. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a falsehood, a myth. Have you not ever seen a cat play with a small animal it captures, kill it, then not eat it?? Wolves are even worse.
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/25/us/wyoming-wolf-pack-elk-slaughter/index.html

    The Canadian Gray Wolf runs in packs of up to twenty wolves. For every one animal they kill to eat, these Canadian wolves kill about three more just for the fun of it. The biologists call it "sport-reflex killing" or "lustful killing". The Canadian Gray Wolf is a killing machine.
    http://rense.com/general93/idaho.htm

    So if wolves kill more than they eat---that's called "surplus killing"---and that's A-OK, or that's just their instinct---their defenders say.

    Humans have the very same instinct to hunt. If a hunter legally kills something he does not eat---I'm okay with it---it's a natural behavior.
     
  24. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    You've obviously never owned a cat.
     
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  25. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    They leave them lay because they are simply shooting more than they can even try to give away. They are an invasive feral animal that is not part of the natural food chain in the United States. I know farmers down there that shoot 30 a day sometimes. They are simply trying to kill as many as they can to try to keep the population under control. That is why there is no season, no limit, and few regulations on shooting wild hogs. They are the only animal in the United States that you can shoot from the air legally as long as you are not hunting(you must be doing it as pest control). Iowa DNT has a shoot on site for feral hogs. I have a guy that sprays my crops come up from Texas and says he spends months a year just flying around and shooting as many hogs as the can from the air.
     

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