Should internet forums be exempt from copyright laws,

MilitaryPhotos.net is closing down largely due to copyright infringements with posted photographs. The new one that is being set up will have tight restrictions on what can be posted.

I personally think that because forums are a democratic institution & that restrictions on what can be posted that does not have to do with bad language, flame bating, nudity, bodies blown to pieces, classified information, etc. such as copyright laws are an interference with freedom of speech & therefore forums should be exempt from copyright laws. What do the rest of you think?

 

Okay, I'm not a lawyer. But. being an author, I've tried to be aware of just what copyright means.

If someone indicates their piece is © and reserves the right to require permission for resuse, that means you can't post it anywhere without permission.

On the other hand, © can simply mean that someone else cannot use it for monetary gain without permission.

Posting copyrighted material is best done with crediting the originator as the source.

For example, I frequently post photos and they always contain the name of the originator.

 

My understanding is that on the replacement forum the photos will have to belong to the poster or you will only be allowed to post a link back to the original article with the photo in it & a credit by it's self will not be enough. There will probably be an exemption where a poster can prove permission from the owner.

Freddy.

 

That makes sense.

 

Where did you get the idea that forums are democratic? They're private sites and the owners of them can permit or deny anything they want. If they permit something illegal though, they risk facing the consequences, effectively as publishers.

As has already been pointed out though, posting images in this kind of context shouldn't be an issue with the correct permissions, attribution and linking. The problem isn't copyright laws here, it's largely a problem with arrogant idiots.

 

True, but forums like Political Forum . com that allow a very broad exchange of information & ideas can help achieve better political outcomes in the wider world.

This is a post on MilitaryPhotos.net by an administrator named digrar.

What is legal & what can be properly enforced on a forum seem to be two different things.

I tried to get on the new site (TheMess.net) to copy & post here the actual rules but down for maintenance.

Freddy.

 

I agree but I don't see how image copyright issues prevent any of that. This Military Photos site seems to be about entertainment (certainly on the images side).

That's why the owners need to take some care. It seems like their new rules only prevent direct posting of images, leaving people to directly link the source. That's generally not preventing anything already public being shared, only managing how that is done.

In general terms direct posting would often be OK with suitable credit and maybe a linkback to the owner/creator. For a forum to reach the point of having "copyright issues" to the extent that it's a factor in closing the site entirely suggests a significant number of their members were failing to follow even that basic principle for some time. They're the reason we can't have nice things.

 

In a debate thread a picture can say a thousand words & if you can only provide a link the impact is just not the same. On some topics for example the stealth shaping of an aircraft having a pictorial description (photo) of what is being debated on the same posts with arrows being drawn on them by the posters to highlight the points being debated is really help full.

The Mods over at MilitaryPhotos.net do crack down hard on the posters there for misbehaving more than the Mods here do but that goes in hand with the forum having a military flavor.

BTW MilitaryPhotos.net will close down by the end of the month if anybody here has a desire to see what it is like before it disappears.

Freddy

 

I think links to a sight should always be allowed, it's like pointing and saying look over there..... if they do not want the picture to show up in someone else site via a link, then lock the site down via a userid\password (non-profit use only obviously)

.

 

Too easy ... forums live because of activity and their capability to be found by internet search engines ... to easy to copy and past copyrighted materials to make forums "rich" ...

A part this mundane consideration, it could be true the other way round. What if tomorrow it appears on the net a new forum "NewPoliticalForum" which duplicate millions of posts of this forum just to become extremely active and extremely attractive?

No, copyright is a must of fair competition and market economy.

 

At first I thought this was in reference the PF "Military Photos Forum," it's not.

Most of the photos that were posted on the PF "Military Photos" fall under public domain. All government (federal, state, county, municipales, education that receives one freaking penny of tax payers money, and all historical documents, photos or works fall under public domain.

If you see a .gov ; .mil ; .edu ; for example in the URL, it's public domain.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?114762-United-States-SOF-pics

 

In my experience, pictures used to make a point say a lot of the misinformed, exaggerated and hyperbole words that need to be discouraged from serious debate. Images can certainly support words but in the context of debate, I don't think they should replace them.

Again, that's generally into the entertainment field rather than political debate though. Regardless, in that context, you can seek copyright fee images, seek permission or work within the context of free use.

If it were that kind of thing alone, I'm sure that forum wouldn't have had to close down. The fact remains that the solution to this issue isn't to scrap copyright law entirely in the context of forums, the solution is (and was) for people to stop repeatedly breaking it for no good reason. Countless other forums seem to survive on the same basis after all. It seems a little much to blame the failure of one on the underlying system.

 

Any activity on an internet forum that is not work related can be accurately described as entertainment, even your post above although I personally do not regard my time here as entertainment, such things are in the eye of the beholder.

Freddy.

 

Maybe some can. I've never seen one. No offense intended but if you're on a board like this you're usually killing time with a hammer. And then there's StormFront et al. Nothing like seeing your masterpiece photo advancing the cause of World Naziism

The artist can always stipulate that Forums can use the picture while still retaining his copyright on other uses, it's his choice. This way we retain the integrity of intellectual property, which is rapidly becoming the most important kind there is.

Scholars dispute but most do agree that copyright needs something of an overhaul in the Internet era. However, we have to recognize that an artist's works are their children. They grow and leave the home eventually but never lose their capacity to both make their creator proud or break their parent's heart

 

Notice how in the original forum hotlinking images with permission of the owner was allowed but now on the replacement forum that is not possible & the way I am reading the new rules no posting with permission of the copyright owner will be allowed at all.

There must be some additional protection by requiring the hosting of all images on a third party hosting site.

Freddy.

 

None taken. One drop of rain is not very helpful but many drops together can make the seed germinate.

The problem with that is policing it & to what extent forum owners should be held legally liable for the actions of posters.

Freddy.

 

True, but I think there is a distinction between serious political debate and "Hey, isn't this tank cool!" and rules that largely only impact the latter aren't quite as significant.

 

Forums are privately owned so freedom of speech doesn't apply.

 

While the photo & video only threads on MilitaryPhotos.net could be described the way you stated above there were also a lot of serious debate threads there including one on the Ukraine situation where pictures have been used to largely settle several issues.

Have you heard of the method of international relations called "Gunboat Diplomacy"? Debates about the capabilities & shortcomings of different pieces of military equipment (including the use of pictures to illustrate the exact point that the poster is trying to make) are also related to the ability of nations such as the US to use threats of military intervention or invasion to influence the policies of targeted countries.

 

Most military related photos fall under being unique historic images and fall under "fair use" under United States copyright laws.

The problem with some forum websites owners, they think they are copyright lawyers but don't fork out the bucks conferring with a real lawyer to learn they don't understand copyright laws.

The most famous and the most reproduced photograph in history is of the Iwo Jima flag raising. The photo wasn't taken by the Navy or Marine Corps where it would fall under "public domain" but by AP photographer Joe Rosenthal . The photo is a historical image and any one can reproduce that photo as long as they give credit to AP and Joe Rosenthal.

 

If the forum owners wants the best posters, widest possible audience & serious debate then they allow freedom of speech within the limits of legality, the nonuse of bad language, etc. Political Forum .com & MilitaryPhotos.net are good examples of where freedom of speech are allowed as much as reasonably possible but it is not hard to find bad forums that only allow certain points of view.

 

The owner of this forum needs donations to help keep it running, maybe he could get a lawyer to donate the advice or if you could track one down for him...............

Those third party image hosting sites must vet the photos for copyright, ownership, citation requirements, etc.

Freddy.

 

there has to be some rules, one site I was on a guy was trying to post a page of a websites book every day, he was literally gonna post the entire book, so there has to be rules

I do not think the owners of a site should be responsible though, it should be the posters.....


.

 

Have had a look at two of the image hosting sites - still confused.

 

Posting a whole book should be against the rules just to avoid wasting space copyright or copyright. Did he say why he was posting the book?

If there is to be no exemption for forums from copyright laws then I totally agree.

Freddy.