Should people who cannot afford life saving treatments be left to die?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Sep 9, 2019.

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Should people who cannot afford life saving treatments be left to die?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Nope. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, there are plenty of excellent non-profit and charity hospitals.
     
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  2. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    Uh, YEAH because I AM one of THEM, Aleksander Ulyanov! As to wife and child, I have none because I AM POOR! Do not think for one second that I am in agreement with some PIE IN THE SKY DREAM WORKS OR CRAFT. If I were to be otherwise, I would not be true to mich silber (my self). America, as I type this, is:

    1. OVERCROWDED

    2. In debt beyond any reasonable comprehension

    3. cannot afford to be the caretaker of irresponsible people

    4. has been taken over by the dissatisfied Beatniks and Hippies whose ultimate goal is to collapse the society and replace it with a hodge-podge, mish-mash of extreme Leftist ideologies, and I for one will NEVER support such a fiendish dastardly agenda



    With that stated, have at it, if you so desire . . .
     
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  3. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    As has been pointed out to you. If I get shot, for example, and I am in need of emergency medical care, I dont have the time to shop around for the best "charity" hospital. The ambulance is going to take me to the nearest ER, and thats it.
     
  4. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Well, for far longer than Obamacare was around, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA, has guaranteed a certain level of medical care to anyone who comes to an emergency department that accepts payments from Medicare or Medicaid. That means they must do a medical screening and they have to stabilize you or send you somewhere you can be stabilized. They can't delay treatment while determining your insurance status.

    That's how it's been for a long time, so your concerns are unwarranted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  5. squidward

    squidward Banned

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    When government reimbursed providers at good rates, the poor were taken care of
     
  6. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Most conservatives want EMTALA repealed.
     
  7. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    No they should not be turned away . No one it turned away from hospital emergency rooms.
     
  8. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here's the problem.... you have a tiny minority who owns everything, they then wants to use inadequate and diminsihing amounts of public funds to promote socialism while they hoard their piles of cash. It's easy to be socialist with other people's money especially when you are the 1%

    The root of all our problems, the theft of public wealth and the 1% telling us we need socialism because they've stolen all the money

    Source, World Inequality Report 2018
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Of course not. That is why hospitals treat them anyway.
     
  10. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that the monetary pool is not stagnant, don't you?
     
  11. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    no.. really... :lol:

    Public funds are decreasing... did you even bother to look at the world inequality Report2018? Here let me help you vvvPublic funds world wide. Tiny minority getting richer (because that is where the money is going... tax havens, equities, property) and preaching to the rest of us to be more socialist... while they buy yachts and luxury vehicles... galavant around the world.

    Screen Shot 2019-09-14 at 7.23.33 am.png

    Truth is, governments have been emptied out... they can't afford socialism..

    You know just think about it, you're on a downward trajectory ito public capital and now you want to implement something that will completely demolish what's left. You need to fix the trajectory first...spend what you can afford... not what your feelings tell you, because that will only land you in bankruptcy
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    That's the very problem, if people hoard their funds it IS stagnant. The economy only grows when money circulates and it cannot grow otherwise for where does the funding to initiate new growth come from?
     
  13. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Short answer: The aren't 'hoarding' money when they are buying yachts and luxury vehicles, and galavanting around the world. Saving or investing serves multiple purposes: Money to lend for those who need it, and investing helps the stock world go round, for everybody.

    Your response to my inquiry is interesting, because you actually are saying that the monetary pool isn't stagnant, then you are saying it is, but use examples that prove it's not.....
     
  14. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    I didn't answer the poll because it's too ludicrous. This is the United States of America, one of the most technologically advanced, wealthiest country on the planet, If we simply allow people who can't afford to pay for medical care to die, we're no better than N. Korea or Yemen. We are (supposed to be) a humanitarian country that cares about every single person living here. We aren't going to practice genocide on thousands and thousands of people because they can't afford health care. That's barbaric.
     
  15. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    We are talking past one another... I never said they are hoarding their money, I'm saying they are taking and keeping all the wealth.... which is exactly what they are doing.

    Do they spend money... of course... do they spend more than they keep... no of course not because how the hell would they end up owning two thirds of everything if that was the case

    Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/07/global-inequality-tipping-point-2030

    Let me say this regarding the thread topic.

    It's a beautiful thing to care about others... lovely, the problem is if you spend yourself into bankruptcy then everyone is going to be left to die... not just some, because your health system will collapse. This 1% vs shrinking of public funds problem needs fixing first.

    In Europe socialism work because they only spend what they can afford.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  16. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    I guess your definition of wealth is different than mine. Wealth, as I know it, is monetary and material. Both of which create cause activity in the monetary pools, and therefore cannot be 'held' in the absolute sense. You need to eat, to clothe, to shelter, all of which causes movement in the monetary pools. An individual's claim to 'a percent of the wealth' is false, since every movement of monetary funds makes it move through to society.

    Someone buys X, and not only the person who sells X sees monetary movement, but those who assemble X, those who supply the raw goods for the production of X, those who pay the wages, the insurance, the packaging....

    It is virtually impossible to say that a limited number of people 'hold the wealth' (or the word the above says, 'own'. Yes, there are some disgustingly wealthy people and families out there. So what. I work and earn what is satisfactory to me, to serve my needs, I don't care what someone else makes or owns.
     
  17. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe Federal Regulation/Law (possibly some states' law too) in the USA requires hospitals/medical professionals to treat life threatening conditions. For the rest of the world, those not covered by similar regulations/law may have to rely on the dictates of Faith or morality of the people they are a member or guest of.
     
  18. lpast

    lpast Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didnt vote because of the choices, because no one in the USA goes without treatment.
    The law says clearly no hospital can turn you away, now is there degrees of care, of course there is. The super rich get the best, the fairly wealthy get better than average, the middleclass gets average.

    Its the same thing with buying houses and cars, theres degrees

    If we had universal the Rich would still have the best, the ones that would get totally screwed are the middle class whos care would go in the toilet
     
  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    In the United States, that person cannot be turned away. The person can go into any hospital in the country and DEMAND to be treated, even if they cannot pay a penny!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  20. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only fetus’ should be saved
     
  21. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Donor

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    Didn't cost you anything? So who paid for it?
     
  22. Nonnie

    Nonnie Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    The NHS. The NHS is paid for out of the tax pot. The tax I pay in the UK is over half less than what Americans pay in health insurance, plus, you guys end up paying thousands on top of that.

    So how much would that have cost in America?
     
  23. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Donor

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    The point is that it did cost somebody something. Perhaps free for you, but somebody paid. That's the problem, too many hands and snouts in the trough wanting free stuff, and not just wanting it, but feeling absolutely entitled to it. Somehow I owe them stuff but they owe me nothing? And then I am the bad guy for not wanting to simply turn over the rewards of my labor to them? Screw that.

    As for your taxes - the tax that many Americans pay is less than my health insurance too. In fact, in America, lots of citizens pay no federal tax at all and actually receive money from the federal government (taxpayer) when they file their tax return. So the point that you pay less is meaningless - so do many Americans. And those same Americans are insisting that I pay more so they can have free health care? Amazing are the endless bounds of progressive entitlement.

    Single payer health care is simply redistribution of wealth, just like the earned income credit and every other nanny state give-away program (from each according to ability, to each according to need).

    I don't want government run/taxpayer funded health care because I already give too much of my time each week to those who contribute nothing to society and actually bring it down.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  24. Nonnie

    Nonnie Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Have a search on Google. I've done it a few times but I can't be done doing it again, hope you don't mind.

    You can find how much 'on average' people pay in tax in the UK that goes towards the NHS. Technically, the more you spend, the more tax you've paid. You can also find how much 'on average' American's pay for health insurance. It's about double.

    Now, in addition, you are welcome to pay privately in the UK to speed treatment up or even go to such health insurance companies like BUPA and take out insurance. I believe you guys can also be lumbered paying many thousands for the treatment, your insurance only partially covers the costs.

    The thing is, we live to our means. So I buy items that attract VAT at 20%, you can buy products with duty such as cigarettes, car fuel and alcohol etc.. If I don't use the hospital, or if I use the hospital; my income and expenditure remain the same.

    I broke my leg. I went to hospital, stopped in the night, x-rayed, plaster cast and sent home. Cast was changed a month later and then had physio. The cost to me was earning my wage and spending on the stuff I want. I didn't send one extra penny to the hospital.

    How would that have gone if I lived in America?

    The government don't run the NHS, they just set the budget, hospital trusts runs the NHS.

    Everyone pays tax, you can't avoid it. VAT is on most purchases. There's 5% on gas and electric.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    How would that prevent the life threatening condition?
     

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