Should people who lost no income or show a loss during Covid get "relief" money?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Bluesguy, Feb 1, 2021.

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Should people who lost no income or show a loss during Covid get "relief" money?

  1. No

    18 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Yes with an income limit

    9 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Yes and everyone should get it regardless of income

    6 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. No one should be receiving any money

    3 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why should we favor one over the other? I am an owner of LOTS of "Big Business" why should someone else's investment get some better treatment than mine?

    Organized labor? That's less than 10% of the workforce, take out government unions which we shouldn't have in the first place, and it starts to fall under 5%.
     
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  2. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol they've laid off tool and die workers by the thousands over the years, They change jobs, do something else instead of waiting around for years for rehiring. with no apprenticeship programs and employer training programs, of course they get no responses to ads for 'experienced workers'. Fricking DUH. Your fantasy doesn't hold water; just because employers don't feel like training workers isn't a shortage, it's just whining self-entitled business owners who cut their own throats and not getting instant gratification for their stupid policy results.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  3. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    You don't have a clue.
     
  4. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Big Business is the modern DP's donor base. If the RP was a real opposition party it would not have to search hard for reasons to neuter what has become a toxic DP dominated political monstrosity.

    Turn over control of the entire education budget to the parents and guardians of children and the teachers unions will vanish instantly. So why is the RP still demanding that the existing failed education system be restarted?
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's the RP that is pushing for vouchers that go with the child and more choice. But total budget is for all taxpayers. What we need are politicians who will finally hold the public school system accountable and tell them your are failing our future generations with your almost monopoly of education and the ability to extort the taxpayers therefore we will shift to vouchers and more choice and you will have to compete for education dollars based on your performance.
    And teachers who have refused to go back to work should be treated as Reagan treated the ATC union. They have perfectly illustrated why such proponents of private sector unions as FDR, George Meany and Mayor LaGuardia all warned AGAINST government worker unions.
     
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  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The plant I cited FULLY TRAINS. As do the other auto-manufacturers, Hyundai, Mercede's, Kia, Toyota, in my region. Along with the steelmills and off site suppliers. But GO GET TRAINING, go to a vocational school. Why should I have sympathy for those who refuse to take advantage of what is available to them. My state along with the manufacturers in my state offer free two year programs in robotics and automation because the manufacturers are BEGGING for people who can do those jobs and they start out over $100,000 a year. Your attempted EXCUSES don't hold water. One candy plant I called on in Louisiana had to bring in H1B workers from Mexico and rent apartments for them because the people who lived there would not apply even though the poverty rate was higher than the national average.
     
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  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Vouchers are a good idea, but they do not go nearly far enough. A serious opposition party should try offering the voters a new deal too good to refuse.
    The vouchers or vested education accounts should absorb all education revenue.
    A party stands for empowering the parents and guardians of children negotiate directly with teachers will yank the guts out of any political opposition that gets in the way.

    The RP will never overcome the power of the teachers unions until teachers no longer have any need for a union to represent them.
     
  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    I used mine on firrearms, ammunition and a stroker crankshaft for my Olds 455.
     
  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Our current system actively discourages productive labor.
     
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  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think it is two pronged. We issue vouchers that follow the child and we pass legislation to end public sector unions. The public schools will have to do the same as the private schools which budget how much they can pay in labor cost and hire accordingly. They budget what they charge based on the market place and customer satisfaction with the results. They tell the teacher how much this position pays and how much this position pays and much based on her experience and results they will factor he pay. If the prospective teacher doesn't like the offer then they can look elsewhere. I think it could be a winning argument for the RP especially after this power play the teacher unions have been playing here at the expense of the children.
     
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  11. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The teachers unions, under the current education/school system cannot be eliminated. It will always be politically impossible, and impossible dreams are a hard sell these days. I agree that the RP should not let this crisis and the exposure of the corruption at the heart of our school systems be wasted on minor reforms that will almost certainly not be enacted into law.

    IMO, it is time for serious political opposition to propose major transformative reform.
    Transferring the entire education budget to the control of the parents and guardians of children would be very popular with all the stakeholders. IOW, candidates who propose doing that could win elections and make it happen.

    1. Transfer control of the entire education budget to parents and guardians of children -
    14K -24K/student/year in most school systems.
    2. Eliminate the administrative parasites including the school boards.
    3. Let teachers form their own small schools 15 - 20 students for each teacher from homes or offices using the resources of the internet.
    4. Teachers who are able to control and educate "problem" students could charge far more for their special talent.

    Teachers operating these small dispersed very local schools would make far more money than union teachers make now and have plenty of cash to provide children with access to computers, large HD monitors, and a good healthy lunch.

    Why would any parent or guardian of children, or teacher oppose such reforms?
    How could any politician win reelection opposing such reforms?
     
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  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Buying votes is never justifiable.
     
  13. mentor59

    mentor59 Well-Known Member

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    why not?
     
  14. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you don't know, no amount of words will help you understand.
     
  15. mentor59

    mentor59 Well-Known Member

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    i did not think you could make more than an impassioned emotional plea.

    A contemplative, free thinking template you will never have.
     
  16. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Should a bag of potato chips cost the same as a private jet?

    Of course not.

    Same/same.
     
  17. mentor59

    mentor59 Well-Known Member

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    Great job! using a false equivalency!!!!!!!!!! Very, Trumpian!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A person who spends a decade in school and years in internships has a special skill. Not many can be a neurosurgeon.

    A janitor can be trained in a few hours. Almost everyone can be a janitor.

    Supply/demand. It's pretty easy to comprehend.
     
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  19. mentor59

    mentor59 Well-Known Member

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    Point is, sociaty does not need be structed that way.

    Because it is, we lose the ability to think or reason objectively, as you have shown.
     
  20. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Riggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhht. We don't need educated people.

    LMAO.
     
  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Paying highly skilled workers the same pay as unskilled workers is, IMO, irrational.
    It is consistent with the current politically correct "2+2=5" indoctrination programs.
    Question authority, especially "teachers".
     
  22. mentor59

    mentor59 Well-Known Member

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    This stuff is above your pay grade.

    Peace
     
  23. mentor59

    mentor59 Well-Known Member

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    why?
     
  24. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's beyond irrational, Ddyad. It's just plain nuts!!
     
  25. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fully communist societies have tried that. It failed, of course. I have a friend from an Eastern European country that was under the control of a ferociously communist government, in the past. Her father was a doctor there. People were supposed to make the same salary, regardless of being the Chairman of the Department (the case of her father) or a humble phlebotomist. Well, what happened is that it stimulated an underground economy, where patients had to pay bribes under the table to get a doctor's care, because the doctors didn't accept being paid the same as the phlebotomists. Also the flat salaries made by everybody fostered laziness (why try to get promoted to a higher position by showing good work ethics or getting better education if you're paid the same?) and other forms of corruption (to add to the salaries). Not to forget, a brain drain, because the educated people were desperate to escape that country to go make a lot more in Western countries, which was the case of my friend, who did manage to get the hell out of there.

    This kind of thing stiffens competition, makes the citizenry unmotivated, and stagnates an economy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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