Should police officers be held responsible for poor judgement when a shooting occours?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Mar 6, 2020.

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Should police officers be held responsible for poor judgement when a shooting occours?

  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
    79.2%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  1. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Good. We likely need less not more . Well educated with a psychology background would be better - and higher pay. Police work is becoming high-tech and there will be less need for "patrol cops" in the near future. Get rid of the military authoritarian type and move a step up on the intellectual scale.
    Sorry folks - but if someone wants a "safe" job do not get into police work. The danger will always be there.
     
  2. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The end result will be and I believe the destroyers of law enforcement want this.

    Call taker, 911 what's your emergency

    Caller a bunch of guys kicked in our door and are now beating the ----- out of my husband

    Call taker, stay on the line with me, can you describe what they look like

    Call taker to CAD to dispatch, signal 41 in progress

    Response to dispatch "Delta 4 hold for next available."

    Dispatch 10-26

    Caller, OMG, OMG, they just stabbed my husband and they are coming for me

    Call taker, stay on the line with me

    Call taker to CAD to dispatch, it's now signal 31 in progress, caller advises intruders have stabber her husband and they are now going after her

    911 hangup

    Response to dispatch, "Delta 4, see if any district 4 or 3 units can break loose and respond, show me 51 Code 3."

    Headline the next day "husband and wife stabbed to death by home invaders".
     
  3. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a crock of crap, you have no clue of what the job requires..
     
  4. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ➡ What a crock of crap, you have no clue of what the job requires..
     
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    True.. i didn't press like for your post because it's too depressing.

    Buy, train with and keep your firearms no matter what.
     
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  6. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Do give me any example of how US cops are 'trigger happy'? And frankly the US police are head and shoulders above others
     
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  7. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Hardly surprising jurisdictions are having problems recruiting cops, people aren't afraid of the physical danger as much as being hung out to dry when they make an honest mistake;



    The idea that we need fewer cops but better educated is just risible, anyone who suggests that has been watching too much TV, forces need TJ Hooker, not the Mentalist.
     
  8. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    False, I worked as a LEO in South Florida, road patrol is the front line when someone calls 911, you don't send a shrink to a robbery in progress or to pull a child from a burning car or the bottom of a pool.

    When it comes to law enforcement, you are truly clueless.
     
  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Then perhaps the nation should go without law enforcement. Let the public fend for itself.
     
  10. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's already happening in some urban areas and as a result violent crime is through the roof, and if it continues total anarchy is next.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Such is the result of private individuals not being legally allowed to protect themselves from harm. If such were not the case, if members of the criminal element knew they could be met with outright violence and even killed for even the smallest of potentially violent offenses against others, perhaps they would be less inclined to engage in violence to begin with.

    Perhaps what is necessary, is for the united states to return to a system where it is legal to kill home invaders on sight. To kill the distributors of illicit narcotic substances in the act of their method of business. To treat those who attempt to steal motor vehicles as a speed bump. To immolate child molesters while they are still alive. Etc.
     
  12. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Though i wouldn't go that far our inner city areas could certainly use more of a dirty harry approach.
     
  13. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ You are a testimonial of what police officers should not be about. The proud authoritarian is in the Neanderthal days. Talking about 911 calls and water rescue ? You sound more like a teenager with an inferiority complex.
    Citizens risk their lives to rescue people every day. More crimes are prevented by allowing CCW. Fire dispatchers instruct callers in how to open an airway and perform CPR. A night clerk at a 24 hour convenience store and taxi drivers have a more dangerous occupation than a cop.
    Most cops today are fairly disgusted with the politics of law enforcement but are not brave enough to speak up or quit. They "go along to get along".
    I stand by my opinion : More focus on different education, less cops - higher pay. The future in law enforcement is technology and brains. Violent criminals and rescue are a miniscule part of police work.
     
  14. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ What about Paul Kersey ?
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Never heard of him
     
  16. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ The reason crime is "through the roof" is because of lousy city management and ultra liberal politics and leftist judges. Holding police responsible for their actions has nothing to do with crime statistics.
     
  17. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    This Guy:

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
    DEATH WISH
     
  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I've never been assaulted by, spat upon, brutalized, mistreated, pistol whipped, or shot by a LEO. That said, interactions between the public and LEO's are a two way street. The public is as beholden to civility as are Officers. You cannot in reason suggest that LEO's must be perfect, while everyone else gets to be an ******. And then presume that the a-holes get to judge the Officer. So, by whose standard is an Officers judgment deemed "poor"?
     
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  20. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Been too long since I've seen it ;)
     
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  21. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Normally that would be the consensus of society - you and I collectively.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  22. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I would think it would be by his/her immediate superiors in the chain of command who are closest to the matter.
     
  23. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    LOL crime is as a matter of fact is lower then it been for many decades but do not allow such facts to interfere with your view of the world.
     
  24. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Totally false, proactive patrolling, criminal activities, fights and disturbances, suspicious person's or activity and severe traffic accidents involving injuries are the major part of police work, 90% of dispatches are for criminal offenses, severe traffic accidents and medical calls requiring LEO presence, shootings stabbings etc., lower level calls are handled by CSA's or other non-sworn employee's, when it comes to law enforcement you are truly clueless.
     
  25. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Crime is only down in certain areas commonly outside of urban s-holes, and crime statistics can be taken with a grain of salt, BSO was busted for misuse of the Powertrack system where after Deputies ordered by supervisors to go into Powertrack and reclassify or not enter incidents to give the appearance that crime, mostly violent crime wasn't happening in Broward county, when in fact crime was actually going through the roof.

    They where falsifying the numbers to keep the grant money flowing

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    The reason for this is to prevent the loss of Office of Justice Programs (DOJ) grants which are tied to reducing crime, if a department doesn't meet it's annual goals then their future grants can be cut off.

    This happened again at the BSO under Sheriff Israel, who handed down orders to reduce arrests and code out as many calls as possible to "B" (bravo no report filed), by the numbers Israel and the department looked great, but bad things where brewing in Broward and they involved a teenager named Nikolas Cruz.

    Cruz’s Prior Contacts with the Broward County Sheriff’s Office

    Prior to February 14, 2018, BSO had a total of 43 contacts with the Cruz family. Of the 43 contacts, 21 involved Nikolas Cruz alone or both Nikolas and Zachary Cruz. Twenty-two of the incidents involved only Zachary Cruz. Of the 21 incidents involving Nikolas Cruz, most were minor and warranted no further law enforcement action. Two of the incidents warranted additional follow-up that was not conducted. BSO conducted internal affairs investigations to evaluate the response by two of their deputies. Both deputies were found to have violated BSO policy and were disciplined.



    (See Appendix C for deputy discipline information.)

    Those 21 instances involving Nikolas Cruz were comprised of:

     Children Fighting or Running Away: 9

     Nikolas Acting Out Toward His Mother (Domestic): 4

     Follow-Up to Previous Call: 1

     Response to 9/16 Threat Assessment: 1

     Complaint of Cruz Shooting Chickens: 1

     Complaint about Instagram Posts Involving Guns: 2

     Field Interview Report (FIR):1

     Family Friends Calling BSO Warning About Cruz: 2

    November 8, 2008: Joelle Guarino called BSO and advised that Nikolas Cruz hit

    her child in the head with a rock. The call type was changed to juvenile disturbance. The parents of both children agreed to not pursue the matter with the police.

    May 17, 2012: A deputy was dispatched to a call from Lynda Cruz at her residence. She advised that her teenage children were out of control, destroying the home and fighting.

    August 5, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO and reported that her children were throwing water balloons at the property. The call notes indicated that the deputy assisted her with disciplinary action for her teenage sons.

    August 19, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO and reported that her children were fighting and not listening to her.

    August 22, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO because her two teenage children were cursing and being disrespectful.

    November 1, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO because her children were fighting about the computer.



    November 27, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO because ikolas had returned home. The deputy spoke with Nikolas Cruz about how he had been disrespectful to his mother by hitting her with the plastic hose.

    November 27, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO to return because Nikolas had

    returned home. The deputy spoke with Nikolas Cruz about how he had been disrespectful to his mother by hitting her with the plastic hose.


    November 28, 2012: Lynda Cruz called BSO because her two teenage children ran

    away from home. They left out a window and fled on foot.

    The children were both located and returned home. The CADnotes indicated that Henderson Behavioral Health also responded to the scene.


    January 15, 2013: Lynda Cruz called BSO after Nikolas Cruz threw objects in

    the home. He was angry because he lost the privilege to play video games. He locked himself in his bedroom but the deputies were able to push into the room. Nikolas Cruz was cooperative after contact was made. Nina Barela from Henderson Behavioral Health also responded to the home.


    October 12, 2013: Lynda Cruz called BSO to report both of her teenage sons as

    missing. They were located at a nearby residence.


    January 22, 2014: Lynda Cruz called BSO to report that she had had a verbal

    altercation with her son, Nikolas Cruz.


    June 29, 2014: Lynda Cruz called BSO because of a verbal argument with

    her two sons.


    November 20, 2014: Deborah Cooper called BSO because Nikolas Cruz shot her chickens with an airsoft gun. It was later determined that one of the chickens died. Cooper did not wish to pursue charges after finding out that Nikolas Cruz was

    developmentally delayed.


    February 5, 2016: Joelle Guarino called BSO because Nikolas Cruz had posted a photograph on Instagram of himself with a gun. Deputy E. Eason handled the call for service. The photograph had been removed and was not observed by a deputy. The post included a statement similar to “I am going to get this gun when I turn 18 and shoot up the school.” Deputy Eason did not complete and incident report but made entries into the CAD stating, “No threats noted and info forwarded to (SRO) Peterson at school.” After the shooting on February 14, this incident was nvestigated by BSO internal affairs and the deputy was disciplined for not thoroughly acting on the information.


    September 28, 2016: Based on Commission interviews with MSD personnel, it was determined that the MSD administration conducted a threat assessment on Cruz due to reports concerning Cruz’s patterns of behavior, resulting in Cruz being prohibited from carrying a backpack to school. A Baker Act evaluation was conducted, but it was determined that Cruz did not meet the criteria for an involuntary examination. A search of the residence revealed no firearms.


    June 21, 2017: Deputy Swadkins conducted an FIR of Nikolas Cruz because he was riding a bicycle at night with no headlight.

    November 1, 2017: Katherine Blaine called BSO from out of state the day Lynda Cruz died. She reported that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and was supervising his 17 year old brother. This was a request for BSO to conduct a welfare check of Nikolas and Zachary because their mother died that day. No report was written. After the shooting on February 14, Blaine told BSO that Lynda Cruz had confided in her that approximately three months earlier that Nikolas Cruz had knocked out three of her teeth.

    November 30, 2017: Mary Hamel, a friend of the late Lynda Cruz, called BSO from out of state. Deputy G. Treijs handled this call for service via the telephone. Hamel reported that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and wanted to join the military to kill people. Hamel reportedly stated that Cruz “might be a Columbine in the making” and was a threat to kill himself. Deputy Treijs did not complete an incident report but entered CAD notes that Cruz was autistic and it was unknown was Cruz was located. He directed Hamel to call the Lake Worth Police Department due to that being Cruz’s last known location.

    After the shooting on February 14, this incident was investigated by BSO internal affairs and the deputy was disciplined for not thoroughly acting on the information.

    And in the end the pursuit of lowering crime numbers by reclassifying incidents 34 people where shot and / of killed by Cruse a Stoneman Douglas High School.

    A such you can take crime stats with a grain of salt and should be very skeptical of their origin.
     

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