Should school be segregated by gender?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Ritter, Mar 21, 2017.

?

"Boys and girls should learn separately"

  1. Agree

    6 vote(s)
    17.6%
  2. Disagree

    23 vote(s)
    67.6%
  3. Indifferent

    5 vote(s)
    14.7%
  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,560
    Likes Received:
    63,011
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think if enough people want it, private schools would fill that void, I would not prefer that for my children though
     
    tealwings likes this.
  2. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Actually, that's exactly what my source say.


    Are you really complaining that I sourced something? Then you're going to hate reading this, and this, and this, and this.


    At least I bothered to source something. All you have done thus far is "quote" Penn State, focusing on graduation rates over quantity education. It's easy to push students threw to make a school look better than it is, that's the entire concept of common-core. Meanwhile we fall lower and lower on the totem-pole of global educational rating where the US is currently ranking 27 (along-side 3rd world nations).
     
  3. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Where? That's a 127 page document. Please point me to exactly where the source says what you claim it says.
    NO I was complaining at the poor quality of the source which did not support your assertions.

    Please identify how any of those sources are relevant. The first one was just describing how many schools were single-sex. I didn't bother looking at the rest.
    Actually, the study was made of students in Seoul, South Korea, as that was where there was a large, truly randomised data set due to the government- school places allocation method there. It is a proper, peer reviewed paper, dead on topic, relevant, recent, published by a credible, well-funded independent source, mathematically competent, fully supporting the assertions made with facts. It is supported by almost every other, less randomised data set. That is what I mean by a proper source.
    If we are not talking about academic achievement, what are we talking about?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  4. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I'm not a teaching expert my opinion is based on observation and reading. Boys generally need to move to learn, they are told to sit still and be quiet and there are research out there suggesting many kids (including some girls) actually learn better when they are allowed to move more frequently instead of trying to keep them in one spot for long periods. Girls are just better at sitting down and being quiet, boys are then labelled as naughty because they can't sit still.

    Even my daughter told me straight out one year she tunes her teacher out, she said "mum if Mrs .... starts talking I think of other things" she was in grade 2. I think what will help is Teachers need to cut back on the preaching and increase activity based learning.

    One of the teachers both my kids adored and managed to capture their attention were highly unorganised, she loved interacting with the kids far more than the need to have them sit still and listen while she talks, she also never raised her voice, they loved her and wanted her to like them.

    Also would be nice if boys had early opportunity to do Arduino and other circuitboard based play learning in elementary but these things cost money.
     
    Ritter and hoosier88 like this.
  5. hoosier88

    hoosier88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yah, my methods classes were ages ago - in the 1970s. But even then, there was a lot of attention beginning to be paid to learning styles of students - & that effective teachers needed to ID & then teach to the learning styles of the majority of the students, with individual tailoring when working one-on-one. That's still sound advice.

    It's also helpful to vary the learning style modeled by the teacher - not radically, just variations on the main learning style(s) of the majority of the students. Keep them engaged, but also vary the teacher inputs.
     
    scarlet witch likes this.
  6. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    OK so what I understand you're saying is that it is a fundamental difference in learning styles, which is a tendency but not a necessary condition of gender, and how the teachers adapt to those styles.

    There may be something to that view, but it would not explain why both girls and boys perform better at single-sex schools. The Penn State research was also conducted across South Korean government schools which apparently have a uniform teaching curriculum and style run by the state, so single sex schools should not have changed their teaching styles (nonetheless, I accept that it is not so easy to assume that).
     
  7. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Is that study conducted for elementary or secondary, secondary I think hormones could explain being distracted by the opposite sex very well :lol:

    Again I am mostly commenting from an observation standpoint on the difference in learning styles between my son and daughter and when I've helped at school. I've also read some studies but in no way claim to be an expert.

    Testosterone and estrogen does affect the way your brain function, here's a study showing how changes affects language for girls.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...udy_suggests_sex_hormones_change_the_way.html

    also (this purely about structural changes)
    Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure
    http://www.eje-online.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107.full

    Ok so from a personal standpoint, my son is an excellent speaker, his reading is good (but he had to work hard on it) and his spelling is absolutely atrocious. Maths he is exceptional.

    My daughter almost taught herself to read, her spelling is phenomenal, her maths is fine, and her memory is heaps better than his,

    When it comes to things like electronics he leaves her for dead. (I'm talking about circuitboards etc understanding how things work and how they are put together, not just working with software)

    Boys and girls are different, their brains work different, they learn differently (also on an individual basis) but I think schools are about more than just learning, it's about social and emotional development too and for those reasons I would argue against separate schools for gender.

    Re South Korea, I had a South Korean guest a few weeks ago we discussed schools in South Korea, students are pressured to the point of exhaustion (they can often be seen sleeping in the back). Life is very stressful in South Korea.
    I believe work overload to the point of exhaustion kills creativity.
     
    tealwings likes this.
  8. hoosier88

    hoosier88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrasa

    "Madrasa (Arabic: مدرسة‎‎, madrasah, pl. مدارس, madāris, Turkish: Medrese, Kazakh: Медресе) is the Arabic word for any type of educational institution, whether secular or religious (of any religion). The word is variously transliterated madrasah, medresa, madrassa, madraza, medrese, etc. In the West, the word usually refers to a specific type of religious school or college for the study of the Islamic religion, though this may not be the only subject studied. In countries like India, not all students in madrasas are Muslims; there is also a modern curriculum.[1]

    ...

    "People of all ages attend, and many often move on to becoming imams.[citation needed] The certificate of an ʻālim, for example, requires approximately twelve years of study.[citation needed] A good number of the ḥuffāẓ (plural of ḥāfiẓ) are the product of the madaris. The madaris also resemble colleges, where people take evening classes and reside in dormitories. An important function of the madaris is to admit orphans and poor children in order to provide them with education and training. Madaris may enroll female students; however, they study separately from the men.[citation needed]"

    (My emphasis - more @ the URL)

    So - non-Islamic content varies from madrassa to madrassa - which is to be expected, when Islam doesn't have an administrative centralized hierarchy, TMK. & Islam adapts to the local culture, & so customs accrete to the practice of Islam, which may not be doctrinal to Islam itself. & if the madrassa is the only local school, then necessarily the madrassa will have to branch out beyond theology.
     
  9. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Fair comment, I was highlighting an extreme case.
    Certainly kills childhood....
     
  10. hoosier88

    hoosier88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No worries. Yah, K-12 (or the equivalent in Japan, S. Korea, China & the Little Tigers) seems to be a reenactment of the struggle for life of the fittest. Japan & S. Korea are rife with stories of children who couldn't keep up, between cramming & homework & add-on skills classes - & who suicide or have nervous breakdowns or are simply physically beaten into submission @ school. (One reason that Japan has a low crime rate - it's hidden as something else, as a normalized part of fitting in & submitting to the group ethic. Once the consensus forms there, it's practically cast in concrete. & the Chinese & Little Tigers seem to regard Japanese as being lazy - yah, go figure.)

    Childhood in those societies seems to be a very ephemeral thing - maybe the first few months of life? & then the culling begins ...
     
    scarlet witch likes this.

Share This Page