Should schools teach students how not to be killed by police?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by JakeJ, Jan 1, 2018.

?

Should schools be mandated to teach students how not to be killed by police?

  1. Yes, it may save students lives in the future

    11 vote(s)
    42.3%
  2. No, everyone is born knowing lack of compliance with police can cause summary execution

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  3. No, police shootings are a good way to cull non-submissive people from society

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  4. IDK/Other

    8 vote(s)
    30.8%
  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    22,683
    Likes Received:
    3,963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah yeah .... and no. Not young, and grew up in the same kind of conditions you did. Kids wandering the streets unsupervised, was usual.

    TODAY, it's not usual. And more to the point, today there is potential threat associated with people doing so - hence the terrible dilemma for police. Back in our day, there wasn't the potential threat, so police behaved accordingly. Street thuggery was confined to very specific inner city areas, outside of which police would not regard random kids in the street as dangerous. They might regard them as potential 'trouble-makers', but not of the threat to life and limb variety.
     
  2. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    4,795
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it is not the responsibility of school to teach children how not to get shot by the police. As a matter of fact, the question is rather skewed or just poorly phrased.

    First off, a good way to not get shot by the police is by not getting into trouble. Here the responsibility is on the shouldets of the parents and not on school/society - if you raise your child to be a decent citizen, the chances of him getting involved with the police are low. Which in turn means a lower risk of getting shot.

    Now, tnere are of course some psyvhotardians in the police force and here, I guess, the responsibility is on the police academy and police departments not to recruit imbeciles who shot innocent people for no reason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    scarlet witch likes this.
  3. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,868
    Likes Received:
    1,993
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You were done long ago and I stuck a fork in you over and over to prove it.
     
  4. Day of the Candor

    Day of the Candor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yeah we can see what a joke protection from criminals is in Europe. You keep your ways and we'll keep ours. I won't impress you with tales about the two times I've had to use weapons to protect myself a friend and my home. I wasn't happy about it and its none of your business, especially since you live in a country where people refuse to be able to protect themselves and don't want their police to be armed either. You can sod yourself and call me a backward arsed person. The odds are that I'll be alive after an encounter with a criminal but can you say the same? You are English? Look what happened to Lee Rigby a few years ago right there in broad daylight on a London street. And there are dozens of other examples.
     
  5. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,508
    Likes Received:
    825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There's only one place below your waist you stuck a fork. You didn't even grasp your own posts, what a joke.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  6. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,199
    Likes Received:
    626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Implicit in such training is the assumption that the lives of cops are worth more than the lives of the citizenry they are supposed to protect. It's a strange "protector" that sacrifices your life to save himself, no? But police culture states that deaths of innocent civilians like Daniel Shaver are acceptable if cops' lives are at risk (as though cops weren't the ones who signed up for risk). And that culture makes the most sense when you consider that people who seek positions of power over others are largely the people who think they are better than their fellow man in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    66,309
    Likes Received:
    15,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if only that were true, we have seen many example of innocent people being killed by cops, some cops that get scared easy and kill, some that are control freaks that try to escalate situations to give them an excuse to kill even
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  8. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    2,988
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No you just implied all in your statements.
     
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,508
    Likes Received:
    825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If I wanted to say ALL I would have done so. You're the who continued (and continues) down this path despite that I stated it was YOUR fallacious ASSumption in prior posts. Don't ASSume anything, read for comprehension and ask the poster if you believe there is some implication in the post.
     
  10. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Okay, so here's the 64-dollar question: what would YOU do to change the way we are policed?

    Two basic possibilities:

    (1) No serious change can be made. Police are a necessary evil, because of the far greater evil they keep in check. It's like those vaccinations which save the lives of hundreds of thousands, but also kill a dozen who would probably have lived had they not been vaccinated. If this is the case, then all that can be done is more training for police, more non-lethal weapons -- why weren't the Mesa police given a powerful bean-bag gun? If there is a whole team responding, then one can be armed with that for precisely such situations as they were in. -- etc. Small reforms, but no expectation of radical change.

    Or, (2) some deep, radical change in the system, such that police shootings of innocent people become extremely rare. Now ... what might that change be?

    Over to you.

    Footnote: it would be nice to know, if someone can do the research, what the actual number of killings of innocent people are. Note that some of these killings are not of innocent people, but that there are powerful forces in the US who are perfectly happy to coolly lie about a case, in order to undermine the existing order. The Ferguson Missouri killing -- Michael Brown, the bogus "hands-up-don't-shoot" person -- was one such. Leftists are still spreading this lie, whether out of sheer maliciousness, or malicious ignorance, I don't know.
     
  11. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    2,988
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok then set the record straight. Do you hate the police in general, not just the bad ones but all police?
     
  12. jgoins

    jgoins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    2,988
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I would suggest implementing deep psychological testing and profiling in the police academies before they take to the streets and weeding out the ones who fail the test. Also requiring new hires to attend the academy for all departments regardless of the size of the town or department. Possibly even testing the ones who are currently serving now as well. As a person who has served on the police department in the past I know I would not have objected to that kind of screening.
     
  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,508
    Likes Received:
    825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First, stick to the topic and that topic is not me.

    It's not about hating police, it's about doing what needs to be done for real police oversight. It's about the many unjust laws and corruption (often as a result) that infests government from top to bottom. For example, there's nothing in the Constitution that reasonably enforces it on those who take an Oath to defend, preserve and protect it. So the Oath is just lip service, something required to get the job. That needs an appropriate Amendment, preferably one that includes citizen oversight, not government oversight on government. That's the fox watching the hen house. All parts of government should have some mechanism for oversight by The People, they are supposed to be the masters of their government but they are far from that. As a result, we have out of control government from the municipalities (which of course includes police) all the way up to the 3 branches. And we all know (or should know) voting is not that mechanism because we are here despite voting.

    But before anything can be done, the problem needs to be exposed for those who are unaware or asleep. Education is the first step in remedying a problem. Sweeping the problem under the rug or marginalizing it does nothing other than the opposite. One has to acknowledge the problem, not make excuses in defense of corruption or other lawlessness.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Mr_Truth likes this.
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    19,204
    Likes Received:
    14,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    Forum right wingers have no trouble with putting all minorities in the same category such as claiming that all members of BLM are radical commies or anarchists. This even though the vast majority of BLM protesters were peaceful and the majority of those who protested in their group here in Minneapolis were white, not black.


    Suffice it to say, there are FAR more corrupt police than we know of because crooked cops suppress evidence that would throw their sorry, criminal asses in jail where they belong. If you were a victim of their criminality you would readily agree.



    By the way, where are my forum right wing 2d Amendment rights advocates? Why aren't they calling for the use of weaponry against criminal government cops????
     
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,754
    Likes Received:
    1,338
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did your armed police prevent 9/11??
    Did they stop all your school massacres?

    Funny isn't it how we used metal detectors at airports instead of prancing round with guns to vastly superior result.
    You have adopted our security measures. We have not adopted yours.
    I wonder why.

    We can all be knobs mate. Not just you.

    Yes, with the benefit of hindsight ,I can say the odds are I will survive an encounter with a criminal. Having had thousand upon thousand of encounters with criminals I can safely say I don't feel much in the way of fear. Nor do I feel in anyway unable to protect myself.
    Neither do I feel any concern about teaching the children of this country about how not to be killed by my government.
    It simple isn't an issue here.

    So while your gun owners all cry about the right to defend themselves from their government, their ability to do so is considerably less than my own.
    Which is why they all know how to surrender. And want to teach others to surrender not die.




    @jogoins I don't think profiling police is the answer to anything. Even the most perfect of human beings has an off day.
    To expect policemen to face these kind of scenario's and never get it wrong, never over react... it's a hiding to nothing. They can't hope to meet overly high expectations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  16. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    This is a poorly worded poll to say the least. But what children should be taught is to obey commands given by the police, period. There now was that so hard? Obey police instructions, don't do anything sudden or stupid and you won't be shot or killed. Why would this need to be taught in a school?
     
  17. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The problem with commenting about social situations -- from American police behavior to what's happening in Syria, from the reality of inner-city public schools, to the situation in Ukraine -- is that most of us are almost totally ignorant of the actual on-the-ground realities. We rely on the media to give us information, and they really can't be relied on. They provide sensationalist sound-bites, and are subject to the pressure of various lobbies, formal and informal.

    Occasionally you get long, in-depth bits of journalism that do provide insight. The Atlantic and the New Yorker magazines are good for this, although both of them, especially the latter, tend to look at the world from the Left.

    If you follow publications -- on-line and print -- from both the Right and the Left, you can sometimes 'triangulate' towards something that may be the truth, but .. it's surprising how biased all of them are. If you just read one side, you will be guaranteed to be mis-informed. I'm always surprised when I find people coolly retailing things that they know to be false -- "Jews in Iran will be made to wear yellow stars", "Michael Brown in Ferguson was shot dead with his hands up". I suppose the people who do this think that it's in a good cause, or that this little lie is a way to get across a greater truth.

    One way to get a better feel for some aspect of social reality that is distant from you, is to read a good book about it, a first-hand account. Sometimes such books are (literally) fiction, but capture the day-to-day realities.

    Which brings me to the police situation: I highly recommend the novels of Joseph Wambaugh (most of them), an ex-LA policeman turned author. He's no doubt somewhat biassed towards the police side, but not overly so: you can learn about 'badge-heavy' policemen, alcoholic policemen, and other less-than-stereotypically-wonderful policemen in his novels. But what you really get some feel for is what it's like to be a policeman ... all the things, good and bad, that they experience in their daily contact with the human race.

    In particular, I recommend The New Centurions, The Blue Knight, and Hollywood Precinct. The first two were written fifty years ago, the latter about twenty years ago.

    It was by reading The Blue Knight that I learned why Los Angeles police act in a racially-discriminatory manner towards Japanese drivers.

    Of course, ideally, every high school student should spend a couple of days riding in a police patrol car. In particular, every shrieking lefty snowflake at Harvard and Yale should patrol for a week with the police in Baltimore or the South Side of Chicago. "Experience keeps a dear school " etc but they might learn something they're not allowed to learn on their sheltered campuses.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  18. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,640
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Arguing with cops sometimes led to the "infraction" being ignored for that time being in my case. If it's done with respect, rationale, and to a cop that's an actual human being, with judgement, it might just work.

    I don't know if it would work with the spastic ticket-giving machines they form at the academy these days, tho.
     
  19. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,640
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't forget teaching him to be docile and respectful towards mafia thugs as well, and he won't have any problem testing his mettle.

    The meek shall, after all, inherit the Earth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  20. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    7,640
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then who are you blaming?
     

Share This Page