Should the media be an advocate for democracy?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Aristotle66, Dec 16, 2021.

  1. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Democracy doesn't respect science because average people don't get it. The "right" to elect who governs us is exactly the problem with democracy. Even without ridiculous propaganda like from Fox news, the Kim regime, in Soviet Russia, from Putin, from China today, or from Goebbels in the 3rd Reich, average people just aren't equipped to make or evaluate the effectiveness of policy decisions. It's not an insult, it's just not the role they have prepared for in society. We need people to do various tasks that they train for, and it's just not going to work to attempt to get the average person to get international affairs, climate change, healthcare policy, etc. So how are they going to have any idea whether their leader's policies are working? They don't know. At best, they judge if things seem to be getting better or worse, but that's not directly determined by whether the right policy is in place. Average people will less ideally base their evaluations of their leaders on whether they are a democrat, whether the leader seems nice or confident or whatever form of charisma draws them in. It's just stupid, frankly. No there HAS to be a better way.

    On the other hand, a foundation of oligarchy and/or democracy always exists. Kings reigned, even when they were idiots, because people believed in divine right and the oligarchy (nobles) thought they were a lesser evil than the alternatives. What is needed is for the people, or the oligarchies in charge, to believe in science and evidence, and trust that people chosen to lead based upon intelligence will follow that evidence while respecting their (real) rights. This would require a constitutional technocracy of some sort, and fewer idiots. So maybe someday, but probably after a singularity.
     
  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I see no difference between repeating right-wing propaganda and BEING a right-winger. So I have no correction to make about that.
     
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    What you say is trivial unless you formulate an alternative to democracy that DOES respect science and humanistic moral standards.

    So you don't know of a better way. Then what was all this about? We defend democracy because the only REAL alternative is a dictatorship. There is not much more that needs be said.

    "Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others..."
    -Winston Churchill
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Every political one does.
     
  5. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    You don't care what he's charged with so long as he does prison time. IE: You're advocating for political persecution. Not for any actual crime that he supposedly committed.
     
    19Crib likes this.
  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Criminal Conspiracy is about conspiring to commit a crime. Which can be done by just one person. So no, they would not have to charge Putin or anyone else to charge Trump with Criminal Conspiracy.
     
  7. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    How so?
     
  8. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    No, not what Mueller said.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    '
    '
    What "Right Wing Propaganda" was I repeating?

    Your posts .. nothing but name callling - Ad Hom Fallacy and unsupported accusations aka Strawmen.

    Back up your claim ..
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bingo!!! He's a proven criminal. What he goes to jail for is up to attorneys. But it's a PROVEN fact that he definitely belongs in prison.
     
  11. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I did say what an alternative is in a general sense: Constitutional technocracy. Of course the devil is in the details. Leaders would be needed, and a congress-like body would need to be selected by an open process based upon expertise, intelligence, and integrity. Tests would be needed, and tests open to outside scrutiny. They would also need to be insulated from benefiting from their decisions with strict recusement rules and strict anti-bribery/anti-corruption enforcement... the constitution would prevent them from making laws that infringe on privacy, free speech... or basically almost anything citizens want to do that doesn't inherently harm other persons. The integrity of the selection process is really the only tricky thing about it. Having smart and good people in charge rather than corrupt charismatic people pulled from the pockets of special interests (the status quo) is the obvious part. Having rights that must be respected is a part that dictatorships tend to lack.

    Charisma does have its uses in terms of diplomacy and getting idiots to go along with good policies, and so the most charismatic person from this congress-like body could be chosen like a prime minister to fulfill the more ceremonial government functions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have NEVER seen anybody who is not a right winger call "good journalism" something that is not objective journalism. It's a right-wing talking point designed to defend right wingnut media like Fox, Breitbart, Info Wars,.... and similar... You claimed that about Chinese media. And doing that in a discussion about how REAL (which means "objective") media require democracy makes it a slam dunk.

    If that is not your position, you need to pay more attention to what you write here.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have have seen many people call "Good Journalism" something that is not objective .. happens all the time .. You are one of the more guilty culprits around these parts.

    I have not done this though.. Prove your claim .. rather than projecting your failings onto others.

    Whats a right wing talking point ? calling non objective journalism good ? this is nonsense .. but regardless .. what does it have to do with me .. as I never made any such point.

    I claimed no such thing about the Chinese media .. said they have some good journalism .. as some of it is objective .. .. only a moron thinks its all objective .. same moron's who thing CNN is objective all the time. .. or even most of the time in the case of CNN .. and likely with China .. that does not mean there is not good journalism coming out of China .. and only a moron thinks otherwise.

    Nowhere did I claim that non objective journalism was good journalism .. keep your strawmen fallacy fantasies to yourself. .. all the time with you this is .. nothing but nonsensical fallacy .. in most every post .. soon as your position gets challenged.. or when you have it handed to you .. like i do most of the time .. when you are not gleefully clicking like on my posts because my arguments against Trump are way better than yours .. and you are a Right wing Zealot on the spectrum compared to me .. in many ways.

    Care to play the game .. Who is ,more of a RW - wingnut ? This should be fun .. Lets see who the real CLINO in the room is.. CL- Classical Liberalism...
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry, but these are just all abstract, subjective musings. No such thing exists. NO tests measure things like "intelligence".

    At the moment we have democracy, and we have dictatorships. If we don't want a dictatorship, we use everything in our power to defend democracy. I'm just not into this type of "metaphysical" discussions at a moment when ours is in danger.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well... I can't judge these "people" that you "have seen" given the absence of any actual verifiable examples. And who are not here to defend themselves anyway. I do have YOU. And I have quoted YOUR words to prove my case to YOU.

    Everything else is inane.

    Thanks for playing....
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Running around a room screaming "Everything is inane" is not an argument for much .. you made a false accusation .. claimed I said something I did not ... and so you just avoid addressing the issue .. having your backside handed to you once again .. a proven purveyor of Strawmen and other fallacy.

    One of these people is YOU .. trying to defend Madows completely unobjective coverage of the Syrian Conflict - "Sin of Omission" on steroids.

    The idea that no liberals tout biased non objective journalism as good journalism is preposterous nonsense on steroids.. Turn on CNN and you can watch the clowns in action .. the guests .. commentators .. "The Mosted Trusted Source in News" .. what a joke that is.

    Much of the nonsense you post w/r to your love of the Vax ..and Blue's Covid Policy .. completely biased unobjective tripe ..

    You got a big log to pry out of own eye mate .. prior to picking speck out of our Brothers on the Red side of the fence.
     
  17. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes you did! I quoted you verbatim. I even used the "quote" feature in the forum.

    And you further prove how right winger you ... "act" (to me that's the same as "being"), by confusing "commentators" with "journalists"....

    Not necessary for me to say more...
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are lying .. flat out you did not quote me stating " non objective journalism is good journalism" cause I never said nor inferred anything of the stort.

    I have asked you to prove this claim numerous times .. show where I said this .. only 12 pages in the thread .. should not be hard to find should your claim be true.
     
  19. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    If it was proven then he'd be in prison. Since its not, he's not. He hasn't even been charged. That you believe otherwise shows that this is nothing more than partisan political persecution. And while you can cut my saying so out of a post. You cannot cut it out of reality.
     
  20. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter what Mueller said. What matters is what the law says.
     
  21. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Who besides Mueller investigated Trump's relations to the Russian government?
     
  22. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    The bigger question is “why do we even have to ask the question?”
    Talking heads are earring big bucks convincing people the country is a rotten husk not worth saving.
     
  23. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Stop watching FOX, then. What is wrong with reading a newpaper?
     
  24. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    Do you ever wonder why we have such lousy candidates for high offices. Or why they are of suck lousy characters?
    Viable countries don’t persecute leaders if the other party just because they can. All it means is you need to shift attention away from your lack of ideas.
    Next up: 24/7 on one or two stations about Durham indictments all through the primaries.
    We also need to see how Bernie bought his house with no money. Then there is Hunter Biden and Swallwell and Fang Fang, and Hillary and Crossfire Hurricane. And you wonder why their is no bipartisanship.

    And Trump laughs at you. You couldn’t convict in an impeachment even on made up charges!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  25. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Just Mueller and his team. And they couldn't find anything regarding conspiracy.
     

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