Should The Unvaccinated Lose Government Benefits?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by independentthinker, Aug 6, 2021.

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Should The Unvaccinated Lose Government Benefits?

  1. Yes

    8.8%
  2. No

    88.2%
  3. Other

    2.9%
  1. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What is misinformed?
     
  2. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    You literally used misleading language too describe Covid. You said it is often fatal. For for who exactly?
    Not for the general population, the numbers prove as much. The you stated that Covid was often agonizing, which again is not the case for general population. Does someone need to explain the math too you?
    You’re either dishonest, or you don’t know what you’re talking about. I suspect you’re speaking half truths on purpose.
    It’s hilarious that you think some moral right to right to chastise people about vaccines, when you’re not even willing to be completely honest about Covid.

    Is covid fatal for those with serious pre existing conditions, I would imagine so, but I’d still like to see the numbers. Same goes with the agony experienced.

    When my wife, and I decided to get our vaccines, the first thing we did was tune people such as yourself, and your rhetoric completely out. Because what you’re doing, and posting is completely counterproductive
    We weighed the risks, and used the best information possible to base our decision on. Our private health decision is non of your damn business, just like those who aren’t taking the vaccines is none of your damn business.

    Face it, forced vaccines aren’t going to happen. People having their children taken away, isn’t going to happen. People being thrown in jail for not taking the vaccine isn’t going to happen. This is all fantasy in your head, and your own disgusting opinion.
    I’m pretty sure you think your intentions are good, but like they say “the road too hell is paved with good intentions.”
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  3. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    I’m vaccinated so you can continue to show your ignorance that’s fine. And a wart isn’t capable of being intelligent. There’s no example you can give that would sway me that a wart is the same as a baby
     
  4. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Not in any real physical sense no, but in the legal and even moral sense they are very similar. You are looking at this from a religious viewpoint, assigning a soul to the fetus, but not even most religions are consistent as to when the soul enters the body or even if a soul exists at all. In any case a soul is not legally recognized or even contemplated before a child is born and a fetus without a soul is just a collection of cells
     
  5. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Blacks are prominent among the unvaccinated. Your suggestion is racist.
     
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  6. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    False.

    Image1.jpg
     
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  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Here are R naughts for some other diseases. The R0 of delta variant SARS-CoV-2 is about 6. Can you provide evidence Covid is possibly the most transmissible that has ever existed?


    • Smallpox has an R0 of 3
    • Polio has an R0 of 4-6
    • Mumps has an R0 of 10-12
    • Chickenpox has an R0 of 10-12
    • Pertussis has an R0 of 15-17
    • Measles has an R0 of 16-18
     
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  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Being correct or truthful isn’t a high priority unfortunately. Hyperbolic outbursts are more common. :)
     
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  9. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    The R0 of Covid is much less than all of these but small pox and polio, but R0 isn't the entire measure measure of virulence. How many of the diseases listed have a period where almost EVERYONE is an asymptomatic carrier for a set period and many are asymptomatic carriers for the entire time they have the malady

    Also please note that smallpox and polio, the two with an R0 comparable to COVID (around 6) were still considered very contagious diseases

    And finally THIS ARGUMENT IS ENTIRELY RIDICULOUS AS ****. We aren't talking about whether people should be made to undergo a difficult and expensive regimen of treatment or medicine or diet. We aren't even talking about whether we should be forced into a long period of "lockdown" like we have just endured. We're talking about whether people should be "compelled" to take an easy, safe and free vaccine which will nearly certainly save them from a long, agonizing and very likely fatal disease. And the conservatives STILL want to give everyone grief about it, with the only reasons given being either outrageously silly or totally nonexistent. This is beyond bloody belief, like offering a canteen of cold water to a man dying of thirst in the desert and being being accused of the Holocaust.

    The devil with this. I've just got new security software and can now return to the the far more worthwhile activity of downloading porn. With all due respect I wish you all continued success under your respective bridges and bid everyone adieu
     
  10. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. The R0 is a measure of how much presymptomatic and asymptomatic spread there is (amongst numerous other things). The R0 is all these factors rolled into one. That’s the point of calculating R0’s.

    And yes. All respiratory viruses spread presymptomatically and asymptomatically to varying degrees. Measles is contagious 4 days before symptoms, chicken pox 2 days before symptoms for a couple examples.

    This is why I was so PO’d at Fauci for telling people not to wear masks because he “didn’t know” Covid could be spread asymptomatically and presymptomatically. He’s versed in virology and epidemiology. He knew all respiratory viruses can be spread both ways and lied or he’s an idiot. And he’s not an idiot.

    Go download your porn. I’d much rather have authoritarians sitting around with their porn than influencing people with their false beliefs on matters of science.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
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  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    So you'd be okay with the vaccinated being fired, marginalized and shunned because vaccines cause the virus to mutate, strengthen, and pose a greater risk to society? Not to mention that the vaccinated can still contract and die from the virus, as well as spread and kill others. Even if you disagree with the rationale behind the rule. A business owners rule is still a rule, correct? Are you just supposed to wave bye bye, and go live in the woods.
     
  12. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    The possibility of getting sick at a place of business, whether you're there as an employee or a customer, is very real right now and that will have an understandable effect on both your revenue and your ability to have enough employees to be open. So yes, I believe a business is entitled to take steps in this regard to protect it's interests. They can't force you to be vaccinated, and I would hope they would honor legitimate medical complications that might prevent a person from being vaccinated if they aren't, but they should at least get a say in protecting themselves. Minus legitimate medical complications preventing you from getting vaccinated, in which I consider you exempt, it's just political bullshit and conspiracy theory nonsense that is driving the anti-vax trend. That is a choice, one I believe you are entitled to make, which is why I don't support the government being able to penalize you for not getting one.

    But I do not believe that everyone else, individual and business alike, should also have to be penalized in order for a person to choose not to be vaccinated.

    Vaccines help. Not as a solo method, but in combination with masks and distancing. They will be a major tool that will help prevent the shutdowns and lockdowns we had last year. If you want businesses to be able to remain open, don't attack them for wanting to take the steps that will help them to remain so.

    And maybe encourage your fellow citizens to click off the political talk radio and conspiracy nonsense and talk to a doctor they trust about one of the vaccines.
     
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  13. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I am more alarmed about the obesity epidemic, who btw are most likely to contract, spread, kill, and die from covid. But nobody is talking about or taking measures to arrest it.
     
  14. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's a much harder topic to address, because obesity is in most cases a self-inflicted condition, not a contagious one. It mirrors drug addiction in that respect. That's not to say that those medical problems don't branch out to include other victims aside from the addict or the obese, but they aren't conditions that you can give to a person just by being in proximity to them(exceptions for children born addicted to the drug their mother is addicted to noted), even for just a few moments in some cases.
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am pro-choice, the government should not decide for us

    but I do recommend getting the vaccine, I did
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the government caused obesity with their high carb\low fat dietary recommendations imo

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  17. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    A small component of obesity is in fact contagious.
     
  18. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    I agree. They can logically be excluded from society to the extent that they present a public health hazard. But you can't take punitive actions.

    There is nothing new about quarantining people who are dangerous.
     
  19. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Why do you talk in ridiculous riddles? What are you talking about?
     
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  20. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Read the post I responded to. If you can.
     
  21. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Obesity is not contagious.

    Next crackpot claim?
     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What in bloody hell are you even TALKING about here? Fer crissake you're not about to catch obesity this morning and be dead from it next week and the treatment of obesity is dieting not intubation. And FAR more important here we're discussing a VACCINE not an ongoing chronic condition. If you want to be concerned about that type of thing I'd think our "epidemic" of depression is FAR more worrisome than obesity but neither one are even SLIGHTLY like COVID. With COVID we're taking about a bunch of ****** NERTS who are quite possibly going to kill us all by encouraging what very well might mutate into the New Black Death because it somehow makes an insane con man feel better. MADNESS, and possibly FATAL MADNESS FOR US ALL which is EASILY preventable.
     
  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. I never make crackpot claims. Ever. You know this.

    We have known for a long time gut microbes determine many aspects of health, from lifelong immune system health to gastrointestinal dysfunction including obesity.

    Around 2014-15 research started coming in showing how ratios of different gut bacteria affect obesity. Here is one such study.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4644874/

    Now more specific research is coming in on how these microbes are transmitted. It has been found spore forming bacteria and non spore forming bacteria influence to a large degree what kind of microbes you end up with in the gut. The specifics of what exact ratios are “best” and “worst” are yet to be determined and will take a while as there are millions of combinations of organisms to consider. But these microorganisms are most certainly passed from human to human from at birth to adulthood. In fact, fecal transplants are being studied as a way to reverse “bad” colonization of the gut.

    It should be noted that the ratios of good and bad gut microbes can be influenced to the good side by a healthy diet.

    On the viral side of the equation, adenoviruses are known to be linked to obesity in animals and humans. There are a few suggested physiological causes that have not been completely determined, but adenovirus infection is correlated strongly with obesity.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517116/
    This is a cutting edge area of science, but it is not crackpot just because you are unaware of it.
     
  24. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So your assumption is that anyone who is not vaccinated, carries the virus. What about those who have been vaccinated, that carry the virus? Repeatedly, by supposed top people' have stated that the vaccination is to reduce the effects NOT prevent the virus.

    Perhaps repeated exposure to the virus would increase your immunity? After all, the vaccine is exposure to it, so the contradiction put forth on the idea that people who MIGHT be carrying a virus should be treated as lepers, is blatant.

    Discrimination based on medical position is about as base as it gets. That means it's not about the vaccination, but the assumption of the people who have not received it are your enemy.
     
  25. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Before I answer, does the government still get to collect taxes from the individuals in question?
     

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