Should we ditch the Australian 'secret ballot'.

There is no federal guarantee that any ballot be kept secret or that any ballot be structured in such a way as to assure confidentiality of your federal, state or local elections. The only reference to ballot secrecy refers to how collective bargaining elections are held. Before the late 1800's it was not uncommon to find partisan newspapers printing out convenient to use pre-filled ballots which party workers distributed to voters to simply drop into the box. Of course that meant that those same party workers had a clue who was interested in which ballots.

In several states the traditional method was ballot by vive voce. http://sociallogic.iath.virginia.edu/node/35 People would announce their vote in public, and have it recorded in poll books, some of which still exist in Kentucky where we have plenty of records of exactly how Kentuckians including former slaves voted as late as 1891.

"Election clerks created these records, sitting at tables on the raised platforms on to which voters ascended, one by one, to voice their vote. They inscribed on the left side of each page of their book of the poll, the name of the voter as he came before them and then indicated by number or tick across the page his choice of candidates for each of the many offices being filled at that election [link to image of Alexandria poll book]. Electoral law in the viva voce states required this mode of election for all offices, from president, Congress (until 1867), and state legislature, to the most prosaic city or county office. Post-election, the poll books became public documents and the evidentiary base for disputed elections. Those that survive are remarkable political documents: each an historical reenactment of a long-past political contest presenting the voting decisions of every citizen and the order in which those declarations were made."

But the 1884 election between Cleveland and Blaine was particularly nasty and by 1890 virtually all states replaced these with Australian ballots printed by local govt with all candidates listed impartially. It was assumed that efforts to intimidate, blackmail or buy votes was bad for democracy.

Well that system got us Donald Trump, and any system which provides anonymity to people who are sabotaging our entire country and putting the planet in increasingly grave danger deserves a closer look.

Here is another secret ballot for the election of members of the new Reichstag with the Nazi party at the top, 1932. Notice there is no place for name on the ballot. Yet by all measures imaginable these German elections effectively undermined the entire democratic foundation as Hitler and his Nazi party continued to bully, intimidate and manipulate the results more and more brazenly. The secrecy of the ballot secured no liberty. It crushed it, just as Trump does today.


I want to know who voted for Donald Trump. I want to know where they live and what they do with their workday. I think we all deserve to know who is impacting our lives. The same trumpsters hollering for transparency in certain House proceedings that impact this presidency can hardly be unhappy to being transparent about their role in getting him there.

States should return to the vica voce system described above. Public votes with public records for all to see and all to know.

 

Pure evil... i mean straight malicious and vindictive. Only a bad person would want such a thing.. go get some morals.

 

Why is general public voting treated so differently from other actions designed to impact government policies. Why do you expect you have the right to secretly cast your ballot, while demanding total transparency in every other endeavor, including how legislators vote, how public meetings are conducted, how courtrooms are conducted and judges rule etc. If it is civic duty to vote, it is civic duty not to hide what you are really doing to the rest of us when you cast that vote. Don't demand from your congressman more transparency when they vote, than you are willing to give up to cast yours.

What evil are you hiding in that booth, what are you ashamed for the rest of us to know about that ballot you hand over to be counted?

 

Sounds to me like you want to gather this information so that you can target these people on some way..
Maybe the evil way Maxine waters did, maybe worse.

The only reason for anyone to have such information is for that kind of attack.

Or did you want to track them down to say THANK YOU.

 

We will try this again until you actually read the words and reply to the words that I wrote. There are questions here that you did not answer. I will enumerate them as bullet points for you.

1."Why is general public voting treated so differently from other actions designed to impact government policies?

2. Why do you expect you have the right to secretly cast your ballot, while demanding total transparency in every other endeavor, including how legislators vote, how public meetings are conducted, how courtrooms are conducted and judges rule etc?

If it is civic duty to vote, it is civic duty not to hide what you are really doing to the rest of us when you cast that vote. Don't demand from your congressman more transparency when they vote, than you are willing to give up to cast yours.

3. What evil are you hiding in that booth, what are you ashamed for the rest of us to know about that ballot you hand over to be counted?"

 

because of the known threat coming from the left's goon squad (antifa) & their loony msm & that they would band together to ridicule anyone/everyone, that didnt vote their way, on social media & call for businesses to fire them, & have our children ridiculed in school... that's why

 

I voted for Trump. What do you think should be done about it?

You got a year before I do it again!

MWAAH HA HAHA HAAaaa...

 

Well the good news is that I fully support your right not to be victimized secondary to the exercise of that vote. If you should not be harassed, assaulted for eating an apple, or walking across the street, you should be protected by those same statutes. Whatever pressures we allow ourselves to influence our own legislators in how they vote, are the same that we should avail ourselves with respect to you.

 

Remember the
Butterfly Ballot
of Florida and Bush vs Gore?
Great ballot for the GOP!
I would like the Federals to manage ballots
for Federal office, and voter registration too
for Fed offices.



Moi

No ​

 

The constitution i expect every right not explicitly forbidden by the constitution.

Why do you feel the need for government to have so much information and control?

It is none of your business who i vote for, where i live or work or who i spend my time with. There is no good reason for you to know any of these things and nothing good you could do with that information.

 

Very admirable.

What, then, do you expect will be gained by having access to peoples voting records?

 

The same gain that we tend to expect from a public recording of our legislators votes. The transparency itself provides us with an understanding of how our system is manipulated by money, influence and more benevolent motives of public duty and civil reform. Why do you want to cast your vote in secrecy, in hiding or more broadly why do you want others to vote in secrecy and hiding ?

 

If your vote counts and if your vote impacts who governs me, then it becomes my business how and why you do it. Its exactly the same logic that some have imparted with respect to a whistleblower report. If you think you have a right to know or examine why someone wants to 'overturn' an election, I have a right to know why someone else wanted to elect in the first place.

Now once again why are you entitled to more secrecy than anyone else impacting my government through direct action? If transparency in government is a good thing, why are voters so against transparency in their role in government? What are you hiding?

 

I want people to vote according to their conscience and their values, not according to the perceptions and pressures of their peers.

The voting statistics currently available are more than adequate for the type of analysis you're advocating. Knowing how an individual voted isn't going to help with that. It can only serve to promote voter manipulation.

 

LoL trying to pretend that your inclinations to know who is voting for Trump aren't actually Nazi'ish.

This definitely ranks in the Top 5 "I wanna be Hitler" posts on this forum I've ever seen.

You come to my house because I voted for Trump.

Have insurance.

 

The constitution! It's that simple. The government has no right to that information. It's a thing called liberty, of which privacy is a huge part.

The fact that this even needs to be explained is a HUGE problem.

 

We don't know why voters vote until we examine their motive. We cannot know if you vote for conscience or values or peer pressure or because you were promised a hefty tax cut by candidate X, or a larger welfare benefits by candidate Y if we don't know how you voted. Its the same logic we use when we demand to know the yeahs and nays on a tax bill. Both votes have a legal and sometimes profound impact on my life and yours.

If people are too cowardly and too intimidated to speak out their vote, they need not exercise it.

 

I love when they expose their megalomania.

Notice how he carefully insinuated that the Nazi thing to do is have a secret ballot, instead of what he wanted...... then he explains why he wants it....to identify those who dare oppose the leftist Gestapo.

They're so transparent it's pathetic.

 

Hahahahaha! "WRONGTHINK"

George Orwell was a ****ing genius.

How you gonna make us "not exercise it" there buddy?

 

The constitution does not say a word about how we vote and Federal law does not either. There is a difference between having a right to vote, and having a right to be secretive and shady about how you do it. If you feel the need to explore the motives of someone who may or may not want to overturn an election, I have the right to explore your motives in electing the same in the first place. I have a right to know that you voted for Trump and explore your possible self interest motive.

 

If they're intimidated, its because some people will accuse them of immorality for trying to protect their money, job, livlihood or security at the percieved cost of others.

Here and now you're displaying precisely the sort of judgementalism that makes people want their votes kept private.

As a demonstration: is there anything you privately view as either moral or immoral that you don't actively discuss with some of your friends/family because you know their perception on the issue differs too much from your own for there to be a true understanding? Do you accept that they likely have similar things they avoid discussing with you?

The bottom line is their vote doesnt impact you any more or less than your vote impacts them. The relative impact differential is zero (or 1:1 depending how you think). Money in politics is different, and theres an argument to be made regarding transparency there, but not in ballots. We all effect eachother equally in that regard, but only if we can vote privately.

 

Here is the quote. "If people are too cowardly and too intimidated to speak out their vote, they need not exercise it. Do not rewrite my post to include language I never put in there. There has never been any suggestion in any of my posts that I wanted to 'make you' not exercise it and you know it.

Why do you think you have any more right to impact governance in secrecy than your legislator or a whistleblower does. Why in transparency a great plan for everyone else but not for you and why you vote?

 

and you need that info for what, exactly... nevermind, i already know... so you can lobby for laws to remove 'certain/perticular' voter types, while advocating for everyone else (including illegals) to vote... nice try, won't work...

 

Then explain how knowing who voted for Trump, where they live, and where they work fits into your plan.

You just curious?

Do you think we're stupid and don't see right through this?

A legislator's votes aren't secret because they represent the people who elected them. The only way to know if they're actually doing their job is to have records of their votes.

There is NO reason you should know how other people vote.

You've already exposed your "wrongthink" stance all too well.

 

1. Voting is a private matter.
2. Voting of our public officials is a public matter.

Why do you want rights to invade people's privacy?

Why did people vote for Trump? Because obama was a piece of **** and Hillary was even worse..

There you go, now you know why people voted for Trump.. your curiosity should br fully satisfied.