Should we fine people who don't vote? Should voting be mandatory?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Bluesguy, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That is what is being proposed in Connecticut by a state legislator. Twenty bucks the plan being mandatory voting.

    "As states consider modifying their voting rules in the wake of the 2020 pandemic mess, the phrase “voter suppression” is being tossed around. To activists on the left, any loosening of election practices is a glorious expansion of the franchise, and any tightening, no matter how minor or politically neutral, is a cynical ploy.

    What’s the limiting principle? That’s one question raised by a bill in Connecticut to make voting mandatory, on pain of a $20 fine. “Much like jury duty,” Will Haskell, a state Senator, argued in a co-written op-ed last month, “voting should be considered not just an opportunity but a patriotic obligation.”
    Didn’t Vote? Here’s Your $20 Fine - WSJ

    Is forcing voter participation just for the sake of participation a good idea politically? Is it really good for the country? Can we constitutionally force someone to vote?

    If you have taken the time and concern to educate yourself on the government and current affairs and the candidates and you need a ride I don't care which side you are voting for. But if you call me to take you to go vote and you are just going to randomly pick because you are clueless as to the issues and candidates, please don't.
     
    GrayMan likes this.
  2. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, voting should not be mandatory in a free country. We allow and "welcome" millions of low-information voters, but it is a bad idea to encourage the politically apathetic. We don't have a poll tax. We shouldn't have a no-vote poll tax.

    Venezuela mandates voting. They also track citizens by ID on how they vote. If they don't vote for Maduro, they don't get their free government food box or food stamps. Vote for the dictator or starve is their idea of free and fair elections.
     
  3. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2021
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's bad enough to vote for the "lesser evil"... now the evildoers want to make it mandatory ?!
     
    GrayMan, Pollycy, Bluesguy and 2 others like this.
  4. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When I openly supported very convenient voting methods in the 2020 election, I never suspected that the next step was mandatory voting. But, it's a very solid argument that if everyone has easy access to a vote, they can't argue difficulty voting.
     
  5. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, you should have a right not to vote, surely one of the tenets of democracy is that you should have the choice not to participate?
     
    Pollycy, LoneStarGal and joesnagg like this.
  6. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Should fly like a rock, the ACLU would be all over it in the unlikely event it passed. Discrimination against "people of color"; since they can't find their way to a DMV for an ID then obviously they couldn't find their way to a polling place or mailbox either.
     
    Pollycy and LoneStarGal like this.
  7. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Chain of events...

    Which would also impact their ability to figure out how to pay the $20 fine....which would lead to more severe criminal charges than not voting.
     
    Pollycy and joesnagg like this.
  8. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,163
    Likes Received:
    3,096
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think also that's a poor idea. If someone doesn't have something to say, maybe it's best for them to stay silent.
     
    GrayMan, Pollycy and LoneStarGal like this.
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    how about we give people a one percent tax cut if they vote
     
  10. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most of the lower-middle working class gets a 100% refund on federal taxes paid. One percent to the rich, who pay most all of the taxes, would be less than peanuts, but I'm sure they'll take any little additional tax breaks they can get. A higher percentage of wealthier people vote already than the percentage of voting poor.
     
    Bluesguy likes this.
  11. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right. I already grit my teeth at the millions of people who vote based on whose personality they like better, but can't explain either candidates' policy proposals, much less describe the potential impact and consequences those policies will have on our lives.
     
    GrayMan and Bluesguy like this.
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1% to the rich is only peanuts because they already pay hardly anything, I pay way more income tax than Trump

    but you're right, that would not motivate the poor to vote
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  13. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's sounds entirely feasible. Or not. lol
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if Trump only paid $750, I paid way more than that, how about you?
     
  15. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    5,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Voting is a numbers game. To win, it really doesn’t matter “who votes”. Is is more about “who counts”. The only ones who care about fraud are the losers. They are expected to be good ‘Merkins and accept it quietly and peacefully.
    Why force the other side to vote in a contest they couldn’t care less about?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  16. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15,050
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Doesn't matter any more. The Elites have rigged the gaime now. The only ones who count are who The Establishment Public-Private Oligarchy decides counts. Everyone can vote, or no one can vote.

    No outsider populist will ever be elected again.

    Time Magazine essentially just told us so. The Shadow Electioneers are in charge, not we the people. We get whomever they serve up, even if that is a geriatric guy with dementia.

    They call destroying our democracy and constitution "Saving America" now, same as our government has called toppling murdering foreign dictators and bombing their citizens "spreading democracy" in our history of foreign affairs.

    upload_2021-2-5_12-7-24.png

    [​IMG]

    https://time.com/5936036/secret-202..._term=politics_2020-election&linkId=110717147
     
    Idahojunebug77 likes this.
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    #12 and here comes you TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

    Please focus on the topic
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that is the topic, Trump was just an example, don't get your panties in a bunch over it
     
  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In theory, it's a plausible idea, but then you remember that only about half of American citizens pay any federal taxes at all!
     
    FreshAir likes this.
  20. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,357
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is difficulty in learning and doing your do diligence in knowing what you are voting for and the many consequences that can come of your choices.

    Being an educated voter is our patriotic duty. Simply voting, is not.
     
    Idahojunebug77 and LoneStarGal like this.
  21. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, I like very convenient methods of voting, because I chose to vote by mail in the 2020 election. I got to see who was on the ballot and research them and even research the proposals up for a vote. It doesn't have to be a difficult process to vote while still doing your "due diligence."
     
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The democracy campaigners watched with alarm. “Every week, we felt like we were in a struggle to try to pull off this election without the country going through a real dangerous moment of unraveling,” says former GOP Representative Zach Wamp, a Trump supporter who helped coordinate a bipartisan election-protection council. “We can look back and say this thing went pretty well, but it was not at all clear in September and October that that was going to be the case.”

    From your link. The article you cite kept the election process from being frauded. It was a noble thing they did.^^^^^
    The kept democracy.
    Thanks for the info.
     
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, voting should not be mandatory.
    But it should be easy for residents of each district to participate.
     
    MJ Davies likes this.
  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,717
    Likes Received:
    19,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The other 1/2 are students in grade, jr high, senior high schools, and colleges, or they are poor or seniors and poor.
     
  25. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,000
    Likes Received:
    718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are right as far as it goes, compulsory elections or not doesn't really matter.

    What DOES matter is the loss of faith in democracy, especially among the young, after the demise of the post war Keynesian consensus in 70's.

    "Loss of faith in democracy: The young are also increasingly losing faith in democracy. A study from the University of Cambridge's Centre for the Future of Democracy, which looked at polls conducted between 1973 and 2020 of four million adults from 75 countries found a significant downward trend in satisfaction with democracy among younger people".

    All courtesy of an economy that has seen young people increasingly facing insecure gig-economy employment...itself based on Friedman's neoliberal economics which erroneously elevated control of inflation above full employment, at a time of increasing globalization.

    ...all based on classical liberalism which posits a 'sovereignty of the individual' delusion, above community cohesion with well-being for all (a Marxist principle).

    (US liberalism worked OK when the US was the world's factory; but it's not working now that China has usurped that position...)



     

Share This Page