Should we help the kurds take Raqqa from ISIS

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Nashk, Jun 26, 2015.

?

Should we help the Kurds take Raqqa from ISIS

Poll closed Jul 17, 2015.
  1. yes, lets bomb the crap out of them

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. yes, but lets send a task force in to minimize collateral damage

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. yes, lets starve them out.

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  4. no, leave them to there own devices

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG]

    Such diagrams have already been in the topic? :)
     
  2. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ISIS regains ground lost in Syria...
    :omg:
    Islamic State Regains Areas Lost to Syrian Government
    Jun 21, 2016 — The Islamic State group has retaken large areas in the northern Syrian province of Raqqa that the extremists recently lost to government troops, opposition activists and the group's news agency reported Tuesday.
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ISIS directing attacks in Turkey from Raqqa...
    :omg:
    Directed from Raqqa, Islamic State cell 'wages war' in Turkey
    Fri Sep 2, 2016 | GAZIANTEP, Turkey - As U.S.-led coalition jets from a Turkish air base began to pound Islamic State targets in Syria in the summer of 2015, Ilhami Bali passed on what appeared to be an order from the militant group's leadership in Raqqa: unleash war on Turkey.
    See also:

    Turkey has cleared Islamic State, Kurdish force from area of north Syria: president
    Fri Sep 2, 2016 - Turkey has swept Islamic State and the Kurdish YPG militia from an area of northern Syria, but Syrian Kurdish forces have still not met a Turkish demand to withdraw to the east of the Euphrates river, President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday.
     
  4. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Obama gettin' ready to kick some jihadi butt in Raqqa...
    :cool:
    Islamic State group: Turkey and US 'ready to invade capital'
    Wed, 07 Sep 2016 - Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan suggests he and the US are ready to drive so-called Islamic State from its Syrian stronghold of Raqqa.
     
  5. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Signal to anti-ISIS forces from Supreme Allied Condista.

    TAKE AL-BAB

    TAKE RAQQA AS PER BATTLEPLAN

    take-raqqa_battleplan.jpg

    Supreme Allied Condista urges -

    • NATO support for Operation Euphrates Shield, while cautioning President Erdogan to temper his rhetoric against our brave and trusted allies, the Kurdish YPG and Syrian Democratic Forces.
    • That NATO does now rapidly deploy the NATO Rapid Deployable Corps Turkey (NRDC-T) in support of Operation Euphrates Shield to secure al-Bab for the anti-ISIS coalition, with a view to a NRDC-T armoured ground attack west of the Euphrates to attack and liberate Raqqa from the south, coordinating with our YPG-SDF comrades attacking ISIS forces from Kurdish-held territory east of the Euphrates moving southwards towards Raqqa.
    • Congratulations to the Joint Task Force - Operation Inherent Resolve for the great success of the anti-ISIS air warfare campaign which has broken the back of the enemy ISIS who are consequently very vulnerable to our ground forces.


    Published at
    http://supremealliedcondista.newsvine.com/_news/2016/09/08/36062818-take-raqqa-battleplan-2016

    View attachment 45663
     
  6. MRogersNhood

    MRogersNhood Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the Kurds need their own area.
    Erdogan disagrees with me.
    They should have their own place to call home.
     
  7. Nordic Democrat

    Nordic Democrat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it's a waste of money.
     
  8. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    View attachment 45779
    Turkey-led Forces Are in Control of 845km² of Syrian Territory

    The best anti-ISIS scenario now is for Turkish-backed forces -

    - right now that's Rebels/FSA but in future I would hope to strengthen those forces with the NATO Rapid Deployable Corps - Turkey (NRDC-T), assuming all necessary political consents are granted (especially Turkey & NATO - no veto by Assad) -

    - to take Al-Bab then push east-southeast towards Al-Khafsah.

    It's really important for the anti-ISIS coalition that we keep a front line for fighting between Turkish-backed forces and ISIS - to be sure not to block Turkish-backed forces advancing versus ISIS because we will need Turkish-backed forces to advance deeply into Syria to attack Raqqa from the south.

    The worst scenario for the anti-ISIS coalition would be SDF/YPG obstructing the Turkish-backed forces and for skirmishing to develop between Rebels/FSA and SDF/YPG when, really, the focus must be kept laser-like on the fight with ISIS.

    It is delusional to think that the Kurds can enjoy a historic gain with ISIS entrenched in Raqqa threatening Rojava.

    Rojava can only enjoy peace when ISIS is ousted from all of Syria - and that requires help from the entire anti-ISIS international coalition of forces.

    The strongest ground forces that the West can bring to bear to oust ISIS from northern Syria are Turkish forces - therefore we must understand that Turkey's forces will need to requisition a ground attack route from Turkey to Raqqa, as looks most likely now through, or perhaps by-passing close to, al-Bab.

    Therefore, the SDF should understand the anti-ISIS strategic necessity of acknowledging the important role of Turkish-backed forces in the battle to take al-Bab from ISIS.

    This is the strategic requirement in the battle to save humanity from the scourge of ISIS.

    Of course, in due course, the city of al-Bab must be returned to the control of the civilian authorities of the people of al-Bab. However, there is a war to be won against ISIS first.

    All should appreciate the difficulties of Kurds making peace with Turkish forces commanded by Erdogan, who is not known for being a peacemaker with Kurds, but Erdogan recently said Turkey would help to liberate Raqqa from ISIS, so that's a point of common agreement to build on hopefully.

    Turkish invasion forces should be under supranational rather than Erdogan command

    Ideally, Turkish forces in northern Syria would be seconded to NATO command (as the NATO Rapid Deployable Corps Turkey is) or perhaps seconded to Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR) command - in which case the opportunities for NATO / OIR to agree and to facilitate transit through al-Bab for SDF / YPG / Kurds for all matters would be very hopeful because NATO / OIR recognise the value of Kurds and the SDF/YPG in the fight against ISIS and a NATO or OIR commanded Turkish force in al-Bab would seek to continue to cooperate with SDF-YPG.

    Erdogan will not relinquish command of Turkey's forces in Syria without a struggle.

    I suggest that NATO and the anti-ISIS coalition generally engage with the Turkish opposition - especially, the People's Democratic Party (Turkey) who have an enlightened attitude to the Kurds compared to Erdogan's intransigence.

    For example, NATO and its member countries could provide direct satellite TV broadcasting facilities for the Turkish political opposition to correct the deficiencies in Erdogan's leadership.

    Well NATO could IF AND WHEN the NATO North Atlantic Council was wise enough to appoint Condoleezza Rice as NATO Secretary General and also appoint me to a supporting role as one of Condi's top aides.

    NATO is the obvious organisation to use but it doesn't have to be NATO.
    For example, making Condoleezza Rice United Nations Secretary General and me as her aide at the UN Security Council would work just as well.

    Put Condi and me in charge and Erdogan won't be a problem any more.

    View attachment 45780
     
  9. BLM

    BLM Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    NO, NO, NO.

    We need to carpet bomb ISIS then we need to give our NATO allies in Turkey the go ahead to bomb the Kurdish terrorists.

    Turkey is our NATO ally and is being terrorized by those evil Kurds.

    The Kurds are nearly as evil as ISIS.

    God bless Turkey.
     
  10. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Actually, Western surgical strikes with targeted smart bombs are more effective than Russian carpet bombing.

    The Kurds are not terrorists. Not the Peshmerga, not the YPG/YPJ.

    Maybe there have been a few Kurds who have joined up with ISIS but those few ISIS-Kurds are the only Kurd-terrorists.

    Well there used to be a peace between Turkey and Kurds so they can't be that evil if they are prepared to have a peace agreement. Regrettably the peace agreement broke down and we must find a way to get a cease-fire, negotiations and a peace agreement re-established between Turks and Kurds, our two great allies in the fight against ISIS.


    You think? Then why do our citizens volunteer to fight with the Kurds?

    Americans ...

    [video=youtube;oYXrMV3XN1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXrMV3XN1o[/video]

    Brits ....

    [video=youtube;2fAPT9SKR_c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fAPT9SKR_c[/video]

    because the Kurds are not evil. Kurds are nice, like the Turks, so it is a crying shame when Turks are fighting Kurds. :confusion::frown:

    Of course.
    God Bless the Kurds too!
     
  11. BLM

    BLM Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Those of our folks who are colluding with the Kurds are colluding against our NATO allies, the heroic Turks.

    Those fighting with the Kurdish terrorists will be regarded as Kurds.

    God bless Turkey, President Erdogan and the brave people of Turkey.
     
  12. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Russia very seldom strikes massive bombing attacks by means of Tu-22M3. For all the time of war only a few cases. In other cases are used SU-24M and SU-34 which carry on 2-4 bombs for one sortie and hit several targets for one sortie. It is very difficult to call it carpet bombings :) Even on the general statistics — 30000 purposes for 10000 departures as of the beginning of 2016.
     
  13. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The Kurds are NATO allies too and our folks are colluding against ISIS, not against the heroic Turks.

    The YPG are not terrorists but freedom fighters against ISIS.

    Of course.

    No because Erdogan has misled and betrayed Turkey with his poor leadership.

    For one thing, Erdogan has too often excerabated the strains in the relationship betweens Turks and Kurds instead of seeking to ease those strains.

    Erdogan has oppressed the people of Turkey, crushing civil liberties with an oppressive police state.

    God bless the Turkish opposition to Erdogan's harsh misrule.

    Indeed. The very brave people of Turkey need God's blessing to survive the cruelties of Erdogan rule.
     
  14. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Just because a fighter-bomber or helicopter drops several dumb bombs doesn't mean it has hit several targets, unless you call anything a dumb bomb happens to blow up a "target", even if it blows up a civilian house with no terrorists in it.

    I think the Russian population must be getting a different media coverage of Russian / Syrian Armed forces bombings than that the West's media are reporting.

    We in the West are watching TV reports of a lot of seemingly random bombs blowing up houses with civilians in. We are seeing a lot of civilian casualties being created to little military purpose.

    We are told the Russians are seeing on Putin's state controlled TV, a false story of many successful strikes against "terrorists".

    Even if it is only one dumb bomb dropped at a time, over time and after many sorties, the effect of many dumb bombs add together to create a "carpet bombing" effect and if you look at parts of Syrian towns and cities where the Syrian opposition has been pounded by the Syrian and Russian forces, that's what they look like, like they have been carpet bombed, by aircraft or perhaps by mortars or artillery in some cases.

    The battlefield of places like Aleppo doesn't look like there has been too much in the way of smart aiming of smart bombs.

    It looks to us in the West, in our media, like collective punishment of urban areas, by carpet bombing, wherever there are areas with fighters somewhere therein who resist the Syrian Arab Army.

    But apparently that's not how it looks on Russian state (ie Putin) controlled TV. Are you being misled my Russian friend?

    Why is Russia using "dumb" bombs in Syria?
     
  15. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    You do not understand. It's not about the number of bombs. And the number of targets struck per single sortie. The Russian air force in Syria, on average, in one sortie striking three targets. This means that RuAF is not physically possible to drops out several bombs on one target.

    Creation of this system has quite strongly knocked out mass production of the Russian analogs of JDAM. Why to do expensive satellite bomb when it is possible a drop cheap dumb with almost same effect? For satellite bombs there are only exceptional cases of difficult meteoconditions.

    We in the West are watching TV reports of a lot of seemingly random bombs blowing up houses with civilians in. We are seeing a lot of civilian casualties being created to little military purpose.

    You never wondered why all such statements are rooted in social networks and never confirmed by documents? :)

    Any faults in Syria so loud will be announced in the Western media that Russia has to be VERY careful. And that's one of the reasons why the Russian air force strikes only carefully reconnoitered areas, usually away from residential areas. Industry, fortified areas, columns on the roads — Yes. But not living buildings. Every strike the civilian population has led to a huge uproar in the Western media with a lot of photos and videos. But there are none.

    This is the result of the work of artillery and mortars. As there are hundreds and thousands of videos on the same YouTube. Both sides are actively using artillery. And thousands of Russian bombs are nothing in comparison with the effect of the millions of shells the Syrian army, ISIS and the "moderate opposition".

    Here is a picture of Aleppo in 2013. Russian bombs can fall in the past? :)

    [​IMG]

    // http://www.globalresearch.ca/its-official-erdogan-sent-turkish-troops-into-syria/5379266?print=1

    [​IMG]

    // http://vjzaq1.blogspot.ru/2013/12/300.html

    Here, again, imposed by the Western media stamp, which constantly have to fight. I don't watch TV. Moreover, population surveys show that the popularity as a source of information to the TV in Russia is in sixth place.

    In terms of coverage, the information sources are located in this order:

    1. Google - 88%
    2. Yandex - 87,2% ("Russian Google")
    3. Vkontakte - 86% ("Russian Facebook")
    4. YouTube - 82,7
    5. Mail.ru - 81.8% of ("Russian Yahoo")
    6. "The first channel" — 81,5% (official Russian TV)

    // http://gorodskoyportal.ru/rostov/news/news/28149690/

    An article written by a person who is not familiar neither with Russian equipment or the practice of the use of weapons in Syria.

    1. The main combat use of unguided bombs is carried out with the modernized su-24M with the above-mentioned system of "Hephaestus". Su-34 is less common. And often uses bombs with satellite guidance.

    2. Russia does not apply the Mi-24. In Syria, no Russian Mi-24. And the existing Russian Mi-28 and Ka-52 does not fly with free-falling bombs. They simply do not know how to wear it — it makes tactical sense.

    Here an example of a suspension of satellite guided bombs (KAB-500S) at Su-34:

    [​IMG]

    And here is a typical flight of Su-24.

    [​IMG]

    He is able to carry 8-10 of these dumb bombs. Why, do you think, it carries only 4 bombs, if planned on carpet bombing? :) The answer is because "Hephaestus" each of the dumb bomb hit direct on target. And it makes no sense to drop more bombs. One sortie, 4 bombs, 2-4 targets.
     
  16. BLM

    BLM Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Kurdish terrorists are not in NATO, but Turkey is.

    The Kurdish terrorists are terrorizing my people and will be wiped out. No mercy will be shown to these barbarians, who are just as bad as ISIS.

    God bless our NATO ally Turkey and President Erdogan.

    The war on terror will be won. ISIS and the Kurdish terrorists will be exterminated. NATO will be victorious!
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33,372
    Likes Received:
    36,882
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male



    Of course, you are free to go there and march against the "enemy" whomever they may be.
    Going any time soon?

    - - - Updated - - -







    Interesting how some people are now blessing NATO but condemned that group when it intervened in Yugoslavia and condemned Clinton for his involvement in that incursion.
     
  18. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I was not asking just about the Russian airforce but about the Syrian air force too.

    "I think the Russian population must be getting a different media coverage of Russian / Syrian Armed forces bombings than that the West's media are reporting."

    How informed are Russians about Syrian airforce dumb bombs dropped in urban areas, such as the infamous "barrel bombs" from helicopters, which have killed so many civilians?

    The Syrian Regime's Barrel Bombs Kill More Civilians Than ISIS And Al Qaeda Combined
    From the International Business Times

    “There is great danger for civilians from the Syrian army, the militias who are fighting with them, and ISIS,” said Khaled Khatib, a photographer with the Aleppo branch of the Syrian Civil Defence, a volunteer rescue organization. “But the weapon that kills the most Syrians -- by 90 percent -- is the barrel.”

    List of Syrian Civil War barrel bomb attacks
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A barrel bomb is a type of improvised explosive device used by the Syrian Air Force during the Syrian civil war. They are typically made from a barrel that has been filled with High Explosives, with possibly shrapnel and/or oil, and then dropped from a helicopter.

    Due to the large amount of explosives that can be packed into a barrel the resulting detonation can be devastating.

    The Syrian military often dropped the imprecise bombs in urban areas leading to civilian death tolls.

    The BBC reported that between January 2014 and May 2015, only 1% of those killed by barrel bombs were rebel fighters.

    There have been thousands of instances of the use of barrel bombs reported during the Syrian Civil War:"
    :frown:

    I think you are underestimating the civilian deaths from Syrian air force dumb bombs - "barrel bombs".

    Even if Russian airforce targeting was good, Syrian targeting seems to be very poor and causing many civilian deaths.

    Are the Russian people informed enough to be allowed an opinion on whether or not they wish Russia to share Syrian government responsibility for Syrian dumb bombs?

    Or are the Russian people kept in the dark by Putin's state TV?

    The information is available on the internet but when the Russian TV news does not alert the Russian people about what is really happening in Syria then Russians won't think to go looking for the evidence on the internet that contradicts the state propaganda that Putin wants Russians to see and hear.
     
  19. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The Kurds are not terrorists.

    The Kurds fighting ISIS, such as the Peshmerga and the YPG, and their political representatives should have a place in NATO.

    If Kurds don't yet have a place in NATO, if NATO does not dare to annoy Erdogan by engaging with Kurds then this is what needs to be improved with NATO leadership.

    NATO should not run scared of annoying Erdogan. NATO must stand up to Erdogan's poor leadership of Turkey on dealings with the Kurds and on civil liberties.

    This is what I would advise to Condoleezza Rice if she was appointed Secretary General of NATO and I were one of her top aides.

    Rubbish. The Kurds are not terrorists and want peace with the Turks.

    The US, NATO, the West does not engage in genocide. Maybe Turkey once did try genocide with the Armenians but we do not. There will be no "wiping out" of the Kurds.

    Rubbish.

    Of course.

    No, Turkey deserves better leadership than Erdogan.

    It will be won.

    There aren't any Kurdish terrorists apart from the few who have joined ISIS.

    Just as soon as NATO stops encouraging Erdogan to mislead Turkey and instead helps the Turkish opposition to correct Erdogan's mistakes.
     
  20. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Sorry, but at first you have accused only one Russia. On what I also wrote the denial:

    Activity of the Syrian Air Force needs to be considered separately.

    Russians in my person are rather informed to understand that worn-out single Syrian planes and helicopters aren't capable to put also a small share of those damages that the artillery and mortars puts. You are rather informed? Saw how the typical airstrike of the Syrian aircraft looks?

    The Syrian army is at war with terrorists and rebels who are covered with the civilian population. It is obvious that civilians will perish in this case. It is impossible to be at war, without killing civil. Then Syria needs to capitulate? To give a victory to ISIS? But why then with the USA too in the Middle East the civilian population regularly kills? Where your accusation of "Obama's regime"? Whether it is necessary to list me all cases this year when the USA killed civil? Or you so know them? In the western media speak to you about it or bashfully suppress?

    Well it is absolutely ridiculous. Losses of ISIS are measured in Syria by tens of thousands of people. If it is only 1% of all losses, then losses of the civilian population are measured by millions. There everything would be filled up with corpses. But instead the western media inflate huge reportings around isolated cases of losses of civilians, filling all with photos and video reportings. Most interesting is that often staged reportage. Would need to arrange staged reports if the civilian casualties would be so high, according to the BBC?

    Sometimes you need to think a little head and not mindlessly repeat everything You hear in the media. This differs Russian users from the West. In the West a great and not justified confidence in the media. And in Russia, the people the media don't believe :) Historical habit...


    Thousands of bombs? Quite perhaps. It very little, isn't enough for such war. Shells of artillery and mortar mines are measured in such wars by millions.

    Here to You an example of how "precisely and accurately" "moderate rebels" to shelling in the city. Are you sure they are killing civilians in less than Assad with helicopters?

    [video=youtube;GgaxvO_DBqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgaxvO_DBqc[/video]

    Да. Точно также, как мы информированы о реальном положении дел с авиацией Асада.

    And the western media tell about such precision weapons of rebels?

    [video=youtube;gj0gmfr8kMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj0gmfr8kMA[/video]

    Here, production of mortar mines by "moderate rebels":

    [​IMG]

    Still "moderate rebels":

    [video=youtube;OX6O0rtpyBc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX6O0rtpyBc[/video]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I can't continue to answer :) The forum sticks together the answer to the previous message, and there some more photos. And together they become more, than 12. And the forum forbids posting. It is necessary to wait until someone else answers or how many and that will pass time.
     
  22. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    And there is a little more wonderful weapon of this war.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [video=youtube;erhv2bub46E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erhv2bub46E[/video]

    I can continue this subject very long, at me at a forum for the last 6-7 years many materials have collected :)

    You not attentively read me earlier. I wrote above that in Russia very few people trust TV. And I don't watch TV in general :)

    But you, seemingly, trust to the western media without critical thinking. Without checking their statement logic and primary sources.
     
  24. Balancer

    Balancer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I apologize. I have misled you. The last several photos are rebels in Libya, but not Syria. We have a dead of night 02:45 and I was mistaken with references. But there is no difference between the Libyan and Syrian rebels, generally, any — their equipment and arms look equally and have identical accuracy :)
     
  25. MRogersNhood

    MRogersNhood Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Messages:
    4,401
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You're kidding,right?
    The Kurds are who needs to be supported.
    Erdogan is a bad leader.
    You see,there's what the MSM presents and then there's what really is.
    You start talking Kurd Genocide you need to sit down.
    Turkey doesn't make headway against ISIS,Kurds do.
     

Share This Page