Should Women Who NEVER Want Children Remain Abstinent Forever?

no one is "forcing" anything on anyone...except the woman that gets an abortion, she is forcing death on her child...

asking that a person, male or female, be responsible is not draconian. You want to have sex, have sex...stop making other people pay for it. Everyone wants 'sexual freedom' but no one wants there to be any consequences...well there ARE consequences, everything you do in life has consequences. No one is special or exempt. "Free sex" sounds real good...until you realize what that really means..every time you have sex with someone you run the risk of not only getting pregnant but of catching an STD..

and if you think that having a baby is so horrible, what are you going to do when you find you have AIDS from your sleeping around? you can't go aborting that...

 

but it IS done, it CAN be done...how hilarious that you can dream up all these remote possiblities..."oh even if the woman is sterilized and on birth control pills and the man is wearing a condom coated in spermicide, a woman may get pregnant so we MUST HAVE LEGAL FREE ABORTIONS!!"...but you can't accept the premise that a woman could get her ovaries removed...

okkkaaayyy...

 

they want freedom to do as they please but they don't want to have to be held accountable. They live in lala land...

 

It is a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing fetus not a child. Spare us the emotional crap.

Responsible by your standards? Who the (*)(*)(*)(*) made you the authority of what is responsible?

No one is paying for it, it seems ere are enough ********s who feel the need to butt in.

 

But its okay for men, isn't it? Men can have sex as often as they like, and that's okay because they don't have to worry about getting pregnant. Women, on the other hand, should keep their filthy legs closed if they don't want to get pregnant.

Right?

 

I've never heard of elective ovary removal surgery. Can you post some sources for this? How available is it? What are the requirements for it? If a woman wants one does she have to already have a certain number of children and/or be a certain age? How much is it? Will most insurances cover this sort of surgery?

I have heard of very serious struggles getting sterilized though. I mean just read this article and then read the comments section. A few people share their stories and frustrations with trying to get sterilized. http://thebritgirl.com/2007/03/15/childfree-just-try-getting-sterilized/

 

Whoa, whoa, take it easy on the hysteria there. Ovaries are removed for medical reasons, NOT for birth control. Tubal ligations are done for birth control, but on rare occasions, they do fail. Nobody said anything about FREE abortions, that is another thread.

 

why do you think that is? Why it so hard to get a "lump of cells' removed if they are classified as part of a woman's reproductive organs but so EASY to remove if they are classified as an 'embryo'? I mean, if as prochoice people claim, they are all just blobs of cells?

my theory is that sterilizing a woman leaves a doctor open to a lawsuit later...but killing an embryo doesn't leave anyone to file a lawsuit..the person is dead. Proof to me that doctors are very aware that abortion kills a human being.

 

no hysteria here, but I can see where reading back something so similar to your own style of writing would sting...

you put up these absolutely ludicrous scenarios then call ME hysterical? LOL!

if a woman chooses to have unprotected sex, then she chooses to take a chance of getting pregnant. Is that 'fair'? no, but it is reality and reality is not fair...we don't all get Heidi Klum bodies, we don't all get Einstein's smarts, some people are born with disabilities, some get disabled thru accidents. That's life. No one should think that they are above paying the consequences for their behaviour.

 

Perhaps it's because unnecessary removal of ovaries can damage a woman's health while removal of an embryo will benefit a woman's health.

Referring to a zygote or embryo as a "person" or "a human being" is just an attempt to attribute the qualities of a human being person to an entity which lacks those qualities.

 

sorry but scientists all agree that a zygote is a human being. 100%.

the rest is more anti woman hatred...'babies harm women's health'

don't believe in the theory of evolution (evolution would not evolve something that would harm the health of the person, evolution removes harmful traits), you don't believe in God (God created women to have children)...I am not sure what that leaves you..

 

Scientists may agree that a zygote is "human" (adjective), but there is conjecture as to whether a zygote is "A human being (noun). Most people would agree that human beings have a working brain (even if it works poorly) which would be lacking in a zygote.

There is no hatred involved at all. Pregnancy/childbirth damages a woman's body forever, that is a simple fact. Because of that, it should be a woman's choice whether to take the risk.

I guess you don't believe in cancer or diabetes, diseases which have evolved to harm the health of people. I don't believe that God only had one purpose for women, and I am not sure where that leaves you.

 

I have posted proof of my assertion on the other thread...where is your scientific study? or are we just going with 'most people' as being the go to experts...you want to put polls ahead of science? go ahead but it does prove you don't have a leg to stand on.

wrong. Show me studies that prove every pregnancy results in 'damage' to a woman's body. and no one has asserted a woman should not have a choice, she can be abstinent OR use birth control OR have non vaginal sex OR get sterilized OR only have sex with sterile men. tada! CHOICE!

You are asserting that EVERY woman that has ever given birth is somehow "damaged goods"...how very anti woman can you be? How you must HATE women!

cancer and diabetes are diseases, not normal functioning of the host...pregnancy is not a disease, regardless of how much you want to reclassify it as such.

Comparing pregnancy to cancer now! Will the ProDeath "Humanists" draw a line anywhere??!

 

What it takes to make up a human being is not decided by science alone. Theologian, philosophers, anthropologists, a whole range of fields have input as to what is a human being.

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

stretch marks (worse in younger women)
loose skin
permanent weight gain or redistribution
abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
changes to breasts
varicose veins
scarring from episiotomy or c-section
other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)

Yes, a woman DOES have those choices, and she also has the choice of abortion should birth control fail or unwanted pregnancy results from failure to use it.

YOU must HATE women and NOT TRUST women to refuse them a choice. If you trust women to make the choices that are best for their lives, it indicates a liking or love for women, not hate.

YOU said that evolution would not evolve something that would harm people...cancer and diabetes have evolved. Pregnancy/childbirth also harms women, although most women are willing to endure it to have the children they want.

 

you might want to talk to your comisogynists on here, because according to them, philosophy has nothing to do with this discussion!

and I still see no evidence from you showing proof that any legitimate source sees a zygote as NOT being an individual human being.

and none of these are irreversible 'damage'....how shallow a woman must be to worry about these cosmetic changes, I am assuming she will never participate in any sport, or do anything for fear of a scar!

you don't see me calling mothers "permanently damaged' objects.

I am sorry, I made the erroneous assumption that you understood that I was referring to the evolution of an individual, not all of evolution...yes, tigers can be harmful, some plants have evolved in a way that makes them poisonous to humans, and some bacteria and viruses are 'harmful' to their hosts..

but any organism evolves in a way to increase it's own chance to survive...you know, survival of the fittest?? sound familiar?

 

Comisogynists??

http://www.google.com/search?q=define+"philosophy"&rlz=1I7DLUS_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

phi·los·o·phy/fəˈläsəfē/Noun
1. The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, esp. when considered as an academic discipline.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/individual
adjective
7. single; particular; separate: to number individual copies of a limited edition.

They're ALL irreversible, some can be somewhat corrected by surgery, but never eliminated.

Regardless of what YOU call them, a woman's body is permanently damaged from pregnancy/childbirth. Women are pressured by society to be concerned about cosmetic issues, and not all the damage is purely cosmetic, some of them affect her quality of life.

Most of the damage done to a woman's body from pregnancy/childbirth is not immediately life-threatening (altho some is), but it affects her quality of life forever after.

 

Yeah, I totally agree. I am pretty sure pelvic floor disorder is not just some shallow cosmetic issue women should be worried about. It's a serious issue.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/pelvic_floor_disorders.cfm

Sounds like a serious health problem to me!!

 

yes, your comisogynists....and yes, I know what philosophy is (you don't win an argument or debate by the number of random words you use)

or should I post a dictionary link and the definition of every word in my last sentence?

uh, yeah, I guess so!

I   /aɪ/ Show Spelled
[ahy] Show IPA
pronoun, nominative I, possessive my or mine, objective me; plural nominative we, possessive our or ours, objective us; noun, plural I's.
–pronoun
1. the nominative singular pronoun, used by a speaker in referring to himself or herself.
–noun
2. (used to denote the narrator of a literary work written in the first person singular).
3. Metaphysics . the ego.

guess   /gɛs/ Show Spelled
[ges] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)
1. to arrive at or commit oneself to an opinion about (something) without having sufficient evidence to support the opinion fully: to guess a person's weight.
2. to estimate or conjecture about correctly: to guess what a word means.
3. to think, believe, or suppose: I guess I can get there in time


so1    /soʊ/ Show Spelled
[soh] Show IPA

–adverb
1. in the way or manner indicated, described, or implied: Do it so.
2. in that or this manner or fashion; thus: So it turned out.
3. in the aforesaid state or condition: It is broken and has long been so.

so I would have been a supermodel but for a few stretch marks!? My life would be SOOOO much better if not for a Csection scar??! Please enlighten me, Granny, HOW exactly would my life have been better?

Would air have felt cleaner? would food have tasted better? Would my husband love me more?! Want to have sex with me more? would men have been flocking to my door pleading for my attention? would I have ridden better? maybe made the Olympics but for that little scar?!

silly and immature, ALL of your protests are...we SEE thru your arguments to the moral decay and rot that festers there...a desperate attempt to make what is be something different. A railing against nature itself, you kick and scream like children "But I WANT it!"

 

Please post a dictionary link for "comisogynist."

Childish rant.

More childish ranting! Lucky you to escape pregnancy/childbirth with a few stretch marks and a cesarian scar. Some of us have pelvic floor damage requiring surgery to repair. Some of us have hemmorhoids requiring surgery to repair. Some of us have a LOT of stretch marks. It appears that the one doing the kicking and screaming here is you...."But I WANT you to have it! Who cares if you can afford it, if it is damaging your body, or you already have ten kids, or you are fourteen years old and not prepared?? You HAVE to HAVE it because not having it offends me!"

 

nah nah, you started it!

(don't like it, don't DO it..)

LOL! it does offend me that you encourage the death of minority and female children and the emotional degradation of a generation of women.

Actually HAVING an abortion however does not 'offend' me...it is cold blooded murder of a human individual with no voice. Now we are back to 'fourteen year olds' and 'cost' because you realize your inane argument that pregnancy ALWAYS causes horrific injuries, life altering trauma is pure bullsh*t.

 

I also have a scar on my knee from falling when I was a girl...guess I shouldn't have put on those roller skates...

and I have a piece of glass in my foot from stepping on a broken bottle when I was eight...guess I shouldn't have been walking...

and I have a scar on my hand where a horse bit me, guess I shouldn't have been feeding it...

I have a scar on my arm from a cat scratch, guess I shouldn't have had pets..

heck, if only I had stayed in, locked in a room somewhere, sitting on velvet cushions and being hand fed, I could have remained perfect and died with no marks of life anywhere on my body..if only there could be such a place!

oh wait...they HAVE those kind of places...so Granny wants all women to be locked up in harems to preserve their looks!


no thanks, I'll live life...and I'll take the scars and trauma along with it! Life isn't safe, it isn't pretty and women are not fragile flowers to be locked up in cages. A woman is beautiful in and of herself and it has nothing to do with how many stretch marks she has, whether she has a scar, a woman is more than the sum of her parts!

 

Actually, parapalegics often CAN enjoy sex and father children.

 

I don't want children, Liz doesn't want children. She cannot have children.

 

Making up words are you, since you can't provide a definition? How old are you, eleven?

Legal, safe abortion saves the lives of minority and female children and women. The only emotional degradation that happens occurs when women aren't given the trust and respect to make their own choices.

Pregnancy/childbirth always causes damage to a woman's body, that's simple, straight-forward, and true.

 

I'll contribute a set of bolt cutters to that cause!