Sincere apologies for taking 5 years to understand NDE comments on Gay Community!

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by DennisTate, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just read a powerful message that I felt fits in her nicely.

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink....89&id=482416631930814&notif_t=comment_mention
    Abigail Hester:
     
  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read much of this thread, but it sounds like a fascinating read. For now, I will just say that I accept any sincere apology for someone who has engaged in past bigotry secondary to sexual orientation. Life is about learning from past mistakes, and staying open to change. All of us have succumbed to stereotyping, victim blaming and shallow thinking at points of our lives. I know I have been guilty of confusing prejudice with truth about groups of people so I better know how to forgive that in others.
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you!

    The way that I got started in being shown about being wrong in so many ways so fast...... was kind of funny....... I actually prayed to G-d to correct me and show me the errors in my thought patterns..... because I suspected that I was a self - righteous and probably ignorant but deeply religious twit.

    Within weeks I began to read near death experience accounts........ and I had to rethink my understanding of virtually every scripture in the Jewish and Christian Bible.

    Only two years or so later... and I even read a book by Helen Wambach Ph. D. and my world view was turned totally around????!
     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well....... five years isn't exactly all that fast........... but as they say..... better late than never?!?!?!


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=445248&page=2&p=1065886269#post1065886269


    The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

    ...............Yes...… but in order to stop fighting we must begin to see where the problem is partly our fault.... and not merely the fault of the people we have been taught are our adversaries......…

    For example...… about a decade ago now I ran into the near death experience account of Mr. Christian Andreason and the way that he worded what he was shown about certain questions....... caused this red neck from the back woods of Nova Scotia to finally begin to understand the world view of the political left??????!!!!!!
     
  5. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also go to church with my wife, though I don't say the words or sign the hymns. I am polite and respectful. The members are polite and respectfully to me. The Christians I know are among the kindest, gentlest and most decent people I'v ever known.
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly!!!!

    This is exactly how people like you and I should approach church attendance. What choice do we really have when it comes to giving our kids some sort of foundation for the philosophy that they will carry all through life.

    I personally.........… can empathize with the anger that Richard Dawkins Ph. D. and so many others have fallen into....... but this is not the time for me to attempt to explain much of that to my daughter!

    The community of people who I suspect will be first to forgive and embrace us Christians....... who really want to rise up to a higher level of consciousness...… will probably be the LGBT community....... because they also have been victims of our pride and self-righteousness and anger.......... and feeling of superiority...…


    Proverbs 11:2

    Proverbs 13:10

    Isaiah 57:15
    .... for the record.... there is a good form of pride..... but if our pride causes us to feel extreme anger toward a group of people.......... and feel superior to them....... then there is a high degree of probability that we have bitten into the wrong form of pride....... You have the right approach.... the majority of my wife's friends are some of the nicest people that I know...… and they truly are making progress!

    http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...t-richard-dawkins-ph-d-basically-correct.html

    I hate to admit it but.... Richard Dawkins Ph. D. is basically correct!
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have read that 2017 is a Jubilee year!

    Apparently it begins on Yom Kippur 2016.

    I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will grant us Christians a surge in the right kind of humility in this year.......... and even the economy will be affected.

    Please learn from Rabbi Nachman of Breslov when it comes to how you approach The Donald....... for all his many flaws........ I am convinced that he is playing out some sort of important role in the epic reality reality film series that we are all STARS in!

    (Please just scroll up one post to #83)...…

    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=419320&page=9&p=1065886887#post1065886887

    Dear Pope Francis...... how about we assist the Jews to get Rabbi Nachman back?
    ............

    Dear Pope Francis....... Sir..... please consider these words by Rabbi Nachman in your dealings with Mr. Donald Trump....... who could well be elected President of the United States on November 8?!

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov

    Pope Francis...…Sir....... Rabbi Nachman was like another King Solomon for wisdom........ frankly...… I think that he was at an even higher level of consciousness than his grandfather was....... although yes.... .King Solomon..... was indeed an "anointed king" / Moshiach!

    At this time there is no better advice that you could use to apply to your relationship with Mr. Donald Trump....... and with America....... .and with the nation of Israel.

    The Donald has been perfectly prepared by G-d for a great work!

    JUBILEE 2017!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

    .............
     
  8. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no generic Christian and to the extent the church has a doctrine against it, they also have doctrine against adultery, fornication, lying, stealing... for which the doctrine against homosexuality is soft, not hateful or deep. And just like they have people attending known to be living "in sin" outside of marriage etc, they are certainly still welcomed and still treated just as friendly.

    The rabidly hateful anti-gay Christianity is more in the tele-evangelists that market emotions, not religion in my opinion. I've heard them quote the Bible the short minutes I've listened, but never once heard any of them quote Jesus.

    The doctrine of my wife's church, which is a huge mainstream Protestant, has a doctrine against homosexuality, though it was never a sermon or Bible study topic. One time a young woman who is bi and not monogamous - but involved since a child greatly in chruch activities - not just services, but Sunday school, taught it to little children, was in the choir and attended Wednesday night Bible studies plus all the Sunday picnics - got up before a large group at a Bible studying. She was trembling. Nervous. Finally squeeked out "there's something I think I really should tell you about me."

    That is as far as she got. The Bible study leader said "you don't have to say it, we all know. Here's what you need to know. We all love you anyway." And they rushed her with a group hug. But that leader then said loudly, "no, I was mistaken. We don't love you anyway. We love you period. There's no anyway to it."

    Its called unconditional love.

    Most Christians I know are not into hating anyone. The media and the screaming radical are the loudest, but I don't think they represent even close to the majority - and of those people who do hate gays and also say they are Christian? For very few of those I don't think it has anything to do with Christianity or their faith whatsover. I suspect most rabidly anti-gay people on average aren't religious at all.
     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You got it!

    The segment of Christianity who preach hatred of the LGBT community may well be making the mistake of putting the words of Paul..... or the words of Moses..... above the teachings of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.... who certainly altered the formula through his Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapters 5, 6 and 7.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...eets-apostle-paul-visionary-dream-heaven.html

    Pastor Rick Joyner meets Apostle Paul in visionary dream of heaven....
    .. that was given to him back in 1995.

    I personally thought that this was a brilliant explanation of how the words of a mere man........ should not be used to annul...... the words of Messiah Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.

    ....
    Pastor Rick Joyner meets apostle Paul in visionary dream of heaven in 1995!

    I believe that this writing can be truly helpful in putting certain statements by Paul into the context of the time and culture in which he lived.
    1Timothy 2:12:
    "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now I don't blame you if you don't quite get into the humor of this at first but.......

    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=445248&page=3&p=1066013116#post1066013116

    The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?



    It seems to me that we are in a situation somewhat like the time of the Prophet Elijah.

    1Kings 18:21
    "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."

    I began to study these experiences a great deal back in 1990. They immediately made me realize that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught was almost certainly in error. I got kicked out of two churches due to disagreements mainly over that doctrine. But as a Christian there was no way that I could deny the possibility of people having an "out of the body experience!"

    2 Corinthians 12:2
    But I know that many Christians struggle with these accounts..... partly because they are offended that people are shown going to heaven who have not "accepted Yeshua - Jesus" in quite the same manner that they did?!?!

    http://www.near-death.com/experience...ard-storm.html

    Howard Storm:
    Here is the verse that causes many Christians to reject NDE accounts as a deception from the dark side of the force.

    Acts 4:12
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A conflict is coming up where....... the LGBT community may line up more closely with the Being of Light of NDE fame.... who I am convinced is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus..... and the Christian political right......… may be playing around with another side of the force?!?!

    http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...publican-legislatures-shed-lgbt-rights-2.html

    Republican legislatures shed LGBT rights

    .... (I gave pretty much the above message #135......in post #14 to this topic)
     
  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You have got to be kidding !

    Palastinians and other Arab and Muslim Nations do NOT want peace in the ME, often time Yassar Arafat stated his goal was to drive Israel into the sea.

    JakeJ had already shown a distinct agenda clearly defining his ideal for Gays, and how they should shut up or be slapped down as victims if they relate injustices perpetrated on Gays, even LE re-classifies crimes against Gays in order to modify reporting of hate crime, I know this because I witnessed it first hand.

    You can soft pedal all you want, Churches like any other establishment are hot beds of abuse and other bigotry, I know, after so many years, Orthodox Judaism does not address Gay issues, AFAIK, I have never heard such things mentioned in Temple of which I was a member of for many years.
    Lashon Hara, probably the reason.
    Reference the Chofetz Chaim.

    I will not derail this thread further.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You sound to be pretty much right on topic to me!

    You are correct.... the leadership of the Palestinians were not attempting to bring peace to the Middle East..... Yaser Arafat stashed away nearly a billion dollars..... paid to him to NOT sign any workable peace deal with Israel.

    There is a rumour that one of his bodyguards would have killed him at Oslo if he had signed anything that could actually work.

    But....... a plan is now on the table that could alter the whole formula quickly...... and if the LGBT community were to assist in promoting this............... it could save a lot of lives. This could be spearheaded by America's artistic community.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...petra-project-israel-jordan-palestinians.html
    Sigmund Ivarsson's Petra Project for Israel, Jordan and The Palestinians.
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have not derailed this thread at all......
    your criticisms are valid but I do believe that a shift is happening.

    This article by my friend Robert Mendelson will reach at least some Christians who
    have an overly simplistic understanding of this question.

    http://lgbtandthebible.blogspot.ca/
    RECONCILING LGBT & THE BIBLE
    by Robert Leon Mendelson
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    President Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the rest of their team DID ESSENTIALLY NOTHING TO PROTECT CHRISTIANS AND YAZIDIS AND OTHER MINORITIES WHO WERE BEING HORRIBLY PERSECUTED during the Arab Spring........ BUT....... PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS TEAM......... (even if they disagree with specific behaviour).......... WILL TRY THEIR BEST TO ACTUALLY PROTECT MEMBERS OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY AND........ I PREDICT THAT WHAT THEY DO WILL PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN PRESIDENT TRUMP HAVING A LANDSLIDE VICTORY IN 2020!!!!!!!!

    In 1990 I began to study near death experience accounts. I had been taught the "soul sleep" doctrine by my church. Within a few months I could no longer go along with this doctrine. Some near death experiencers have been shown some information on this topic that reminds me very much of the Sermon on the Mount by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

    ......I personally believe that the deeply religious Christians who President Trump has chosen to be his advisors..... will encourage him to protect the lives of Gay people living in Islamic nations................ Christian Andreason.......

     
  17. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    As long as Trump nominates justices who do not recognize and protect a constitutional right of privacy in sexual and reproductive behavior, and see marriage as a fundamental expression of that privacy right, including decisions like Roe vs Wade, Loving v Virginia, Griswald v Connecticut, Lawerence v Texas, United States v Windsor there will be no gay and lesbian support for Donald Trump, regardless of what he does internationally. The truth is that Trump really does not give a rats ass about gays and lesbians and their rights, but he does care about abortion. Every time he nominates a pro life justice originalist, he undermines the foundations of LBGT civil rights, equality and a right to marry. We are not going to vote for him or work for him over a democrat who does support our equality.
     
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    So what?
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As a Theist ...there are really only about two possibilities as to who the being of light who
    reviews lives with people might be........ and I believe it is the Word / Logos..... and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his eternal form keeping his promise to judge us.......

    John 5:22

    "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgmentunto the Son:"

    Some of these near death experiencers came back with information on the topic of sex and specifically homosexuality that was quite different from what Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong taught me back in the 1970's.

    http://allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

     
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty cool thanks for sharing
     
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  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I really do appreciate your encouragement.........
    basically... I think that what G-d revealed through Moses on homosexuality....... is like kindergarten.....
    or maybe Grade 1 or 2 level spiritual information.... but what was revealed to
    Mr. Christian Andreason was more like...... the true mind of G-d that finally can be revealed in our time period.......


    Isaiah 55:9

    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  22. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    No. It's a sin according to the laws of Moses. Jesus himself never said anything against it. So, you are more jewish than Christian.
     
  23. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER!"

    Yep, Christ wants us all to love paedophiles, rapists, and mass murderers? What a load of crap! :wall:
     
  24. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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  25. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the light of your comment here I have a good idea how you may answer the following poll?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-being-of-light-of-nde-fame-g-d-or-satan.445248/

    The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

    .................

    Especially in this particular case:


    https://www.near-death.com/archives/ndes/sixwings.html

     

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