Sincere request to help me understand why you feel abortion is not murder.

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Left Of Genghis Khan, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    Wow...

    ...I thought you were just looking for ways to disagree with me, being extremist and moderately sarcastic to add color to the conversation. I thought it was just an argumentative tone, a literary conceit.

    This comment indicates that you might really believe that people disagree with you because they are evil and malicious.

    No wonder you come across as being so terribly angry and bitter.

    I feel sad for you. :( Righteous indignation at "the evil of the world" does nothing to assuage the loneliness of demonizing and dismissing people who merely disagree with you.

    Trust me, thinking differently about an issue does not make people your enemies, nor does it imply they mean any harm.

    Take care of yourself.
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    So you lost the argument and had to make me the topic....:)


    Ya, wanting women to have the right to their own body makes a person "angry and bitter"....hilarious...


    No, "thinking differently" does not make people my enemy....trying to treat women like livestock makes them my enemy...
     
  3. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    The basic dividing line in views on the issue of abortion is not whether women have rights, but rather whether a fetus (or embryo or zygote) is a child deserving of protection from being killed. Those of us who do not think of a fetus as a child favor legal abortion. Those who do think of a fetus as a child tend to be against abortion being legal.

    That this is the dividing line is clearly demonstrated by the fact that nobody is arguing about whether it is okay to "abort" (kill) a nursing newborn, or a newborn still attached by the umbilical cord. It is still the mother's body that is providing the baby food. The difference is that there is absolute consensus that the newborn is a child with a right to life.

    You demonize people because they believe being fully human starts at a different time than you believe it does. You interpret their difference of opinion about the definition of being a child as being somehow about you. It clearly is not. Women are clearly not a factor in why Anti-Abortion people think abortion is morally wrong and should be illegal. They are focused on the "children".

    <Rule 2>

    This is as much a mischaracterization of their views as it would be for them to say to you, "wanting to murder babies makes you my enemy."

    Near as I can tell, you do not want to murder babies, but rather are well-meaning in your views and intentions. You just have a difference of opinion as to when human life starts, and as a result, draw a different conclusion about abortion.

    Demonizing you for your views is as ridiculous as demonizing them for theirs. <Mod Edit>

    <Rule 2> disagreeing does not make them evil any more than it makes you evil.
     
  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    I promise I will answer. I just have to know how many children you have adopted.
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You: ""This is as much a mischaracterization of their views as it would be for them to say to you, "wanting to murder babies makes you my enemy."


    You still won't/can't get it....saying abortion is murdering babies is wrong, it isn't murdering babies.

    When I say you are attacking women's rights to their own bodies I AM CORRECT....

    That's the DIFFERENCE....


    YOU refuse to read the post after post demonizing women yet blather on as if it's all about the "little fully formed Gerber babies being murrrrrdered"....you igore the hate thrown at the poor by the right,""" those filthy Welfare Queens who only have babies so they can get Welfare but we won't let them get abortions!""

    They hate welfare that provides food and shelter for CHILDREN....


    Go ahead, glorify those who don't believe all Americans, even women, should have equal rights....... I won't.


    <Reply to Deleted>
     
  6. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    Actually we agree that government should not be involved in abortions. You wrote, "There should be NO laws concerning abortion." I expressed that in posts 252, 273, 279, 284, & 295.

    Where our conversation started centered around discussion of willfully misunderstanding and demonizing one's opponent. The fact that you have consistently done one or the other in this discussion means that YOU made YOURSELF the topic.:)

    Relax, the world is not your enemy.
     
  7. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    <Reply to Deleted>

    You refuse to explain it, but the question is whether you are even able to articulate how the difference of opinion about when someone becomes human implies lack of good intentions on the part of the person who disagrees with you?

    Because you refuse to accept that the fundamental concept you disagree about is what determines the conclusion, you retreat into the insistence that it is all about your rights, and that people who disagree with you are enemies, and you even ignore the many people who disagree with you, who still do not want to change the law.

    <Reply to Deleted>

    Stop trying so hard to make enemies where you have only philosophical disagreements. Even more to the point, stop trying so hard to make enemies where you have philosophical agreements. <Mod Edit>
     
  8. Marcus Moon

    Marcus Moon New Member

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    When did I attack women's rights to their own bodies?
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I meant a general you, not you specifically...
     
  10. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Easy. At the time abortions tend to occur, the fetus has never had a feeling, thought, or emotion - they are not capable of it because the brain is not developed enough. While of human origin, they have never been a person and thus destroying them is not similar to murder.
     
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  11. eathen lord

    eathen lord Active Member

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    Politically I am 100% pro choice, personally I would be willing to adopt a child if necessary to avoid the alternative IF THE MOTHER WAS WILLING. I do not agree that it is evil only that it makes most people somewhat uncomfortable, it is a fairly invasive medical procedure at times and humans have not adopted past our squeamishness yet.
     
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  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member

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    So the skull crushing is okay if the child has a disability?
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Are you trying to troll?

    The so called "partial birth abortion is outlawed in the USA. This has actually caused more distress

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction

    Your own laws are forcing this. In many many of these cases the foetus is so abnormal it is incompatible with life but the parents often want to hold the baby even though they have ended the pregnancy. Late term abortions are not done for selfish reasons they are done most often as palliation
     
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  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    So you have not bothered to learn anything at all about WHY 3rd term abortions actually occur? :eek:
     
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  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Has ANY Anti-Choicers really wanted to learn ?




    Nope, it's better to forge blindly ahead in their hate for women rather than ever apply facts, common sense, or human decency....

    They think if they just scream " abortion is muRRRRdering BAAAAbies" enough times it may come true without anything to prove it or back it up or even give it an ounce of credibility......I have wondered how some people can hate half the population based on their sex, hate them so much they want to take away the right to their own body...
     
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  16. clg311

    clg311 Active Member

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  17. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    So why do you feel murder is not abortion ??
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    The crux of your question must begin with the larger question...Is a fetus a human being (person) and therefore given rights. Every Human being has certain attributes that allow for this designation. We humans are not the strongest or fastest animals, our eyesight, sense of smell, dexterity and hearing are far from the best. We have become top dog for one(1) reason, our brains have become advanced enough to develop advanced thought. A human fetus does not have the wiring or hardware to fit this criteria, it cannot feel or think like you and me so it is NOT considered a person.
    Basically the Cow/Chicken/Fish that was slaughtered for your dinner had a more advanced neural capacity than a ZEF and we do not call this murder. You seem to be falling into the standard emotional trap of rabid Pro-Life mentality and have started this thread disingenuously hoping we will all fall for your act of innocent ignorance.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member

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    Probably your criteria would exclude babies and toddlers as well.
    Fetuses probably are capable of smell, that's a very primordial sense that develops early. Hearing simply doesn't go online because it physically requires a solidified ear drum, and bones are relatively late to calcify in the developing fetus. Therefore, lack of being able to hear shouldn't be taken as a sign of lack of structural ear development.
    However, numerous studies have indicated that the unborn can perceive the mother's tone of voice.
    As for being able to see, numerous other animals (like pandas and kangaroos) are born and leave their mothers before their eyes are fully developed, so I'm not sure that not being able to see constitutes a criteria for being considered a non-person.

    Do we really know what a fetus thinks or feels? Have enough studies been done on it?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  20. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    Electrodes have been used to see brainwave activity in a fetus and the signals that are indicative of functional neural activity do not appear until well after the sixth month. PROBABLY is not an accepted verification of data in any reality based discussion and your commentary on anatomy simply solidifies the validity of my post.
     
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