Single Payer nightmare in hell complete with death panels

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by mitchscove, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rubbish. The underlying problems remain exactly the same whoever is controlling it (or is presented as being in control). The only difference will be how the consequences of those problems present themselves. Please stop being part of the problem.
     
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  2. funkytrip

    funkytrip Member

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    No, they tell you that such and such treatment is not covered because it's too expensive just like the corporate insurer's death panels tell you. You are free to plunder your savings and find some treatment in a private clinique, just like the parents of that baby did, only they asked the internet to fund stuff.
     
  3. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes the only Doctor who could help that baby wanted £1.2 million to do so, and had a financial interest in the drugs he was going to give the baby. Drugs that had not even been tested for this on mice! Wonder why he could help?
     
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  4. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    Your right, it isn't there yet, but that is where it is headed and when one states, let them do what they want, they are doing it for me, and you turn your back, sooner or later they will stick a knife it. That is who Trump is... that kind of person, he did it to thousands in Atlantic City...
     
  5. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    What does this have to do with single payer healthcare?
     
  6. Tony Dassow

    Tony Dassow Member

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    In a free market, you could always buy health care and health insurance. ObamaCare did not end it. Health care costs have skyrocketed and bureaucracy has greatly increased. You can't keep your doctor and you can't keep your Cadillac plan if you one of the fortunate ones with really good insurance.

    The pro-public health care folks should just go with Single-Payer, and use Medicare for all. Just cover every citizen with Medicare and be done with it.
     
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  7. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Tell us again how bureaucracy from the Fed, will help make it better. That's on top of a State Government.
     
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Try it and see

    Imagine if you will a world where you can get medical care without the worry of insurance of out of pocket costs
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the republican healthcare bill is the real death panel
     
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  10. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if you will.....a world where you can get the real truth without the politicization of those who are suppose to be non partisan. Then you wouldn't have threads like these being based on unrealistic projections. Like those coming from the CBO.


    Revealed: Whopping 73 Percent of CBO's 'Lost Coverage' Estimate Comes From Individual Mandate Repeal....


    Conservative healthcare policy wonk Avik Roy, a strong supporter of the imperiled Senate healthcare bill, wrote an eye-opening analysis over the weekend. He examined and applied leaked data in order to demonstrate how the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office would score any GOP Obamacare replacement bill as "denying" coverage to at least 16 million Americans. That's due to CBO's fanatical belief in the power of the existing law's individual mandate tax, an article of faith to which they've clung, despite hard contradictory evidence. For the first time, Roy is able to reveal exactly how heavily -- and dubiously -- CBO leans on the strength the individual mandate in producing its coverage numbers. This is vitally important context for the current healthcare debate, both in terms of swatting down Democrats' favorite attack line, as well addressing as moderate Republicans' top hesitancy. He begins by noting the bizarre stability of Congressional bookkeepers' "lost" coverage figures, no matter how vastly various Republican-backed 'repeal and replace' measures may differ:

    It should be noted that CBO's score of a repeal-only measure under which Obamacare's regulations remained in place pegged this number significantly higher, at 32 million. Roy goes on to use previously-unpublished data to highlight precisely how individual-mandate-centric (and therefore unreliable) CBO's coverage calculations are:

    Thanks to information that was leaked to me by a congressional staffer, we now have the answer. Nearly three-fourths of the difference in coverage between Obamacare and the various GOP plans derives from a single feature of the Republican bills: their repeal of Obamacare’s individual mandate. But the CBO has never published a year-by-year breakout of the impact of the individual mandate on its coverage estimates. But CBO has developed its own estimates of that impact, during work it did last December to estimate the effects of repealing the individual mandate as a standalone measure. Based on those estimates, of the 22 million fewer people who will have health insurance in 2026 under the Senate bill, 16 million will voluntarily drop out of the market because they will no longer face a financial penalty for doing so: 73 percent of the total. As you can see in the above chart, two factors—repealing Obamacare’s individual mandate and the CBO’s outdated March 2016 baseline—explain nearly all of the CBO-scored coverage difference between GOP bills and Obamacare.

    Here is Roy's conclusion in a companion piece at Forbes: "There’s a simple way for Republicans to highlight the CBO’s mandate mania: have CBO score one version of the bill with an individual mandate, and one version without. It’ll make as plain as day what those of us who follow this stuff see up close: that the mandate is the secret sauce driving the CBO’s faulty coverage predictions." In short, of the scary 22 million "lost coverage" number, almost all of it is attributable to people choosing not to buy something they weren't required to, coupled with that bogus, inflated analytical baseline. Some of it also relies on the flawed expectations that (a) millions of additional consumers will somehow be persuaded by the mandate in the coming years (why? how?), and (b) that hypothetical future Medicaid expansion in certain states will be canceled by 'repeal and replace.' .....snip~

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...me-from-repeal-of-individual-mandate-n2358719
     
  11. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The face of Democrat single payer, cradle to grave 'health care.' This guy will be in charge.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  12. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’m not sure what you think I’m saying but you seem to be having your own fantasy debate that has nothing to do with my comments.
     
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  13. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Well lets look at what I stated and what you stated. That caused your mind to think others were having a fantasy debate as I wouldn't want to be accused of taking advantage of your simpleness.


    HonestJoe said:
    So is yours. Western healthcare is failing and has been for some time and the underlying reasons are basically the same for us all; ageing, unhealthy populations and ever increasing medical capabilities (and thus expectations). All the arguments about how healthcare systems are funded and run are really sideshows, fiddling while Rome burns.

    MMC said:
    Keeping the Fed in control of it.....will only making the failing happen faster.


    HonestJoe said:
    Rubbish. The underlying problems remain exactly the same whoever is controlling it (or is presented as being in control). The only difference will be how the consequences of those problems present themselves. Please stop being part of the problem.

    MMC said:
    Tell us again how bureaucracy from the Fed, will help make it better. That's on top of a State Government.....snip~



    Now the reality is I stated keeping the federal government in control of it will make the failing happen faster. In response to your idea that all the arguments about healthcare systems are funded and run are really sideshows.

    You say Rubbish to what I stated. Talk about whoever is controlling it that all the underlying problems remain the same. Doubting that the Fed would make its failing happen faster.

    So now I come back with the simple answer. As most know the Federal government is loaded down with bureaucracy. Which will cause that healthcare system to fail faster. So I state tell us how bureaucracy from the Fed will make it better. Since you don't think a bureaucracy will cause a healthcare system to fail faster.

    As you can see that is the reality that is taking place with what has been said. There is no fantasy debate as you claimed. Not unless that's where you went with your mind. It was you that said it was rubbish that the Fed and its bureaucracy would make it fail faster. That's you playing doubting Thomas. It really was that simple and shouldn't have caused you to lose track of reality. Hopefully this will help you to return to us back here, in reality. Around those of us that like to keep it real. Just sayin. ;)
     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    The real issue is if you go to a single payer system will the government bureaucracy running it be more or less cost effective than the massive bureaucracy that currently runs the insurance companies.
     
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  15. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Which the Fed just doesn't have a proven track record of being cost effective. Does it?
     
  16. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A healthcare system is going to have bureaucracy regardless of who is running it (the alternative an anarchic free-for-all, which would at least as bad). The nature and effectiveness of that bureaucracy can certainly impact how the system actually works (or not) but I don’t buy the line that US Federal bureaucracy is somehow automatically and unquestionably worse than any other alternative or comparison.

    The fact remains that the causes of the problems in Western healthcare have nothing to do with bureaucracy and I care about healthcare, not petty partisan politics. This thread, like so many others, is exclusively about the latter, with zero actual care about anyone’s health or wellbeing.
     
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  17. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And are you seriously suggesting the insurance companies do? The only true government run insurance program is Medicare and I guess we could debate whether it is more or less cost effective than private insurance.
     
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  18. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Debating how to create a more effective healthcare system is hardly evidence of not caring about anyone's health or wellbeing.

    And it is noted that you don't state what you think are the real causes of the problems in Western healthcare. Of course if you are asserting that there are better health outcomes in non Western countries it is going to be incumbent on you to provide proof.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
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  19. Guno

    Guno Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do Christians Really Believe What They Claim to Believe?

    One of the things that has always bugged me about Christians is that there often seems to be a massive discrepancy between what they claim to believe and how they behave. Health care offers an excellent example of what I am talking about. For the Christians who claim to believe that they have a personal relationship with Jesus and are cared for by a benevolent god, why do they need health insurance? Why avail themselves of modern medicine at all? Shouldn't prayer be sufficient?

    http://www.atheistrev.com/2009/06/why-do-christians-want-health-insurance.html
     
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  20. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your hysterical and dishonest fear mongering is irrelevant to the topic.
    Single-payer models are the best way to design a healthcare system.
    Letting insurance companies look for profits on the backs of the sick is unworkable.
    Stuff the ignorant partisan posturing and start coming up with ideas that don't involve telling sick people to eat **** and die.
     
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  21. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    You do understand that this is due to the costs of HEALTHCARE in the United States and not health insurance, right? Now, how would single payer or government run insurance bring down the costs of healthcare?
     
  22. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it certainly does impact how the system works or doesnt. Imagine that. Businesses have shown to be cost effective with running a bureaucracy, have they not? When has the Fed? There is more of an incentive with businesses. Who has the proven record?

    Oh, and that's the other part of a Federal Bureaucracy, the politicization of it. The politics. Where the government steps in.
     
  23. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol...You do realize that these cons work hand in hand to bilk the system, right?
    Part of the problem in healthcare reform is to keep attacking fraud and waste.
    Why not charge $40/per aspirin tablet in a hospital when they can fob off the cost to the insurance companies, who are then only too happy to increase premiums to maintain their profits?
    Focus on what needs to be fixed.
     
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  24. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    Then there is the V.A. wherein the Fed shows the way, huh? Real cost effective Right? Efficient eh?
     
  25. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of things that make healthcare expensive in the US and cheaper than in other countries. There are a ton of reasons like simpler administration, better bargaining power for lower healthcare costs, wages, lower to no profits, and lower drug costs, more preventative care and less expensive treatments, and much much more. And it all depends on the system we are talking about.
    http://www.investopedia.com/article...0615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/44180042
     
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