Single Payer nightmare in hell complete with death panels

All of this can be done without government running things.

 

America is about opportunity and taking advantage of it. It is not about the government taking care of you and your needs.

 

The single payer systems that have a lower infant mortality and longer life span than the US system?

 

True, but there was zero scope for debate in the OP. This thread isn’t about healthcare, that’s just being used as a tool for the hate politics.

I did mention the core problems earlier; ageing and less health populations, exponentially increasing medical capability’s and related exponentially increasing demands and expectations.

“Western” is a bad choice of word. I was referring to the developed societies with similar social issues and access to the full scope of modern medicine. I’m not presenting other parts of the world as necessarily either better or worse, just not facing the same issues on the same timelines.

 

Lots of ways after all those countries with single payer have lower costs and better outcomes


http://brontecapital.blogspot.com.au/2011/03/health-care-and-fiscal-reform.html

 

There are in my opinion two really major causes of the financial difficulties in the US healthcare system. One is that end of life spending is out of control and the second is the access to incredibly costly medicines and proceedures. The first can be solved the second I am not so sure about.

 

Yes, that's pretty much it. Exactly the same issues exist across the developed world which is why we all have difficulties managing out healthcare systems too, regardless of their underlying financial or political structures.

 

Citation please.

 

In these debates, it always boils down to those opposed to any form of reform have already said, 'I have mine, screw you'.

It is selfishness combined with a pseudo-religious belief in capitalism, devoid of any logic based in reality or understanding of macroeconomics.

 

It is when there are those who wish to return to a pre-ACA environment, where cap limits and risk ruled the day.

For starters, the lack of transparency regarding the true costs of healthcare is a major obstacle combined with the complexity of modern medicine prevents the accepted norms of market economics a moot point.

 

On the second point, we already see there are working models to lower the costs of drugs and prodedures that effectively work for other nations.

On the first point, what is it that you are suggesting?

 

Try checking out the OECD and others they all say the same thing

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub.../oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

 

OK....First off Commonwealth Fund is left-biased according to Media Bias/Fact Check. Second, the percentages shown are within statistical error.

 

You are correct. Many universal healthcare systems have private hospitals and many even have private insurance as the default, but the government has strong regulations for ensuring lower prices, but it doesn't necessarily run or pay for the healthcare itself. If you have any ideas for policy changes for lower prices that are less heavy-handed than those in Europe I am all ears.

 

Its not about taking care of people, its about our healthcare costs being completely out of control and finding cheaper and cost effective that is also affordable for almost everyone.

 

One possibility is lifetime spending caps. Another of course is allowing doctor assisted suicide. Another of course is a panel of experts who determine when additional Medicare spending becomes non productive. The third of course is to do what America is now doing which is ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

 

Well yes actually Medicare spends a much smaller percentage of it's total spending on overhead than insurance companies. So to put it simply a lot higher percentage of Medicare spending goes to medical care. The fallacious arguement of Conservatives is that per patient Medicare does spend more but that arguement is disingenuous because of course Medicare patients are much older and so have many more claims per person than the younger population.

 

Hmmm. I dumped anthem, but I studied Wellpoint's annual report. As I recall, they earned $2.6B on slightly less than $60B in premiums. HHS costs the country over $1T and we don't even know what the actual cost is because the cost of HHS management, Congress, Executive management (reduced due to Trump working for free), GAO, GSA, OPM ,,,, etc.

Fact is that those greedy capitalists cost us far less than the greedy bureaucrats ,,, and the capitalists are required to be transparent while the bureaucrats hide costs in every corner.

 

How do the different countries you are talking about count infant mortality. I know that in the US, ANY live birth is counted, in other countries they only count births with no defects.

 

Lower drug costs --- good point. Many pharmaceuticals are developed in the US ,,, development, years of testing done here with some tax breaks and some grants from the US. When it comes to pricing drugs, the US doesn't negotiate like other countries. We should. We shouldn't prevent companies from recouping their investment and making it worth their while, but we should ensure that we get at least as good a price as their cheapest foreign customer. Let them do their negotiation from there. Overall, they are not earning ridiculous compensation for their product. It's just that Americans are taking the brunt of the cost. I'm good with solving that problem.

 

Mm somewhat true. The byzantine billing system of our healthcare system, mostly the result of our kinda-free market but mostly not free market insurance system, is responsible for a significant portion of our wasteful spending.

Not that I'm blaming insurance companies, they're doing what they have to.

But you're right, profit margins are not one of our problems.

 

Give me a break!! Who developed Guardasil? Who developed Relenza? Guess??

What you need to do is ban pharmaceutical companies from advertising - that is where your cost really lies

That and you do not have a single buyer system because you do not have a single payer system. Single buyer systems can negotiate cost of medication downwards

 

If drug companies weren't making profit overseas they wouldn't be selling overseas. So if they are making a profit overseas then why not just charge the same here as they do overseas since they are still gaining?

 

Link???

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality

And a higher rate of pre-term births is in and of itself an indicator of poorer health

 

They're making a profit overseas if you're considering only production and distribution.

The R&D costs are covered by Americans.

There's a reason over half (I think it's still over half) of medical R&D happens here in the States.

They would no longer be gaining.