Skeptical Inquirer July/August issue on 9/11 Truth

Discussion in '9/11' started by Hannibal, Jul 6, 2011.

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  1. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    I never said I have evidence.

    I never said I have evidence.

    I never said I have evidence.

    I'm just being honest.. I don't claim to have all the answers.. I'm not sitting here feigning some kind of divine wisdom and knowledge of things I couldn't possibly know, like you are.

    What am I doing here? Showing that you guys aren't much different than the truthers you ridicule and it makes you hypocrits when you do the same thing trumpeting your conjecture as fact.

    I'm refuting your claims and proving them baseless.

    Like this one: "The CIA has evidence"..

    You don't know that.. You can't even name a shred of evidence that they have.

    So, I'll ask again, what evidence?

    Most likely!!!! Good! Gone from definate fact to most likely.. I think we're making progress!

    Now, what exactly is the evidence you have there preponderating?

    Explain why any of them aren't possible please.
     
  2. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because you have no evidence at all. Simple really. You have speculation, misinterpretation, and ambiguity.

    I have physical evidence, witness testimony, expert analysis, and the admission of guilt.

    You have...agreement from a select few nutters who suddenly diverge into delusions of energy weapons and hologram planes?
     
  3. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    And? I have the same as everyone else.. I already told you a lot of what I believe is speculation w/o evidence so why are you wasting keystrokes reading that back to me?

    You're the one claiming your theory is proven, not me.

    Now I'm no scientist but did you know, that scientists refute the studies and theories and such of other scientists all the time, sometimes even if they don't have a viable proven theory on the topic of their own?

    Me not having a proven case about the plotting of this attack doesn't preclude me from calling you out on the theory you claim is proven.

    Great let's hear it.

    Great let's hear it.

    Great let's hear it. (You do of course mean independent of your friends at the CIA, right?)

    What the one they tortured out of him? I explained in great length the problem with this being used as the only evidence in you didn't address it.

    I have refuted this "confession's" value as evidence ad-nauseum.

    You'd probably admit to 9/11 too if your kids were captured by your mortal enemy and didn't know if they are alright or not or what could happen to them.

    Select few huh? So I assume you have poll results showing more people believe your story about the alleged plotters than don't believe it? The story yet to be proven in court?

    Don't think so.. You people constantly feigning popularity and widespread acceptance of your opinions is getting old.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    The article in the July/August 2011 issue of Skeptical Inquirer, "The 9/11 Truth Movement:The Top Conspiracy Theory, a Decade Later", which was discussed in this thread, is finally on-line, here.
     
  5. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    "Finally" online?!?!?!??!

    You vehemently argued the toss with me about how it already came and went, and that I missed it.

    At any rate, thanks at last.. I will give it a read when I get the chance.
     
  6. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guess you missed this too.
     
  7. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    Missed this?? Try going back and reading.. I responded to that and we discussed in length..

    What does that change about my current comment about anyway? Whether or not something is at the library doesn't change whether or not it's available online BEFORE, when it's the current issue... If you read on, you'd notice me saying that they post back issues about 3-4 months after the fact, which lo and behold, is what happened here.

    Speaking of missing things, why don't you look upwards on the current page... lol
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    Fascinating article.

    I wonder if any of the 'truthers' will address it?
     
  9. RtWngaFraud

    RtWngaFraud Banned

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    Considering who presented it, I seriously doubt it.

    Probably gonna be ignored like the 93 burrowing plane was.
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    'Truthers' ignore evidence. That's no surprise.
     
  11. RtWngaFraud

    RtWngaFraud Banned

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    Only the stuff from folks who support the "official" BS story.
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    That fallacy is discussed in the posted article. It's a very cult-like point of view, very similar to flat-earthers and homeopaths.
     
  13. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    Define "cult like" please..

    This is only like the tenth time I've had to ask you.
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    Blindly following their leaders, like any religion. I thought the definition was self-evident.
     
  15. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps if the 9/11 Commission had released their findings via grainy YouTube videos and blogs it would have more credibility with you?
     
  16. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    No.. There's multiple defintions.. This is why I wanted you to clarify.. Thanks for answering... Eventually.

    And yours isn't any of the definitions.. Which is why it wasn't "self evident" what you were trying to say, rather I was forcing myself to assume you meant the most common misconception/perversion of the word, but wanted to give you due chance to specify otherwise. The closest thing would actually be worshipping, or paying reverence, to such leaders.. Blindly following a leader also applies to virtually all military personnel in the world, and most orginations, jobs, families etc.

    Actual worship, is something completely different.

    In the idea of a cult, this would involve ceremonies and rites and such..

    I don't see people doing ceremonies around Gage, or building monuments to him or anything like that.

    You clearly have no idea what a cult is.

    Now... 9/11 truth as you put it. Merely holding such a point of view (I guess this means people who disagree with your particular view), is, you say "blindly following a leader" (I won't use the cult word as you were just abusing it, perhaps using it as a buzzword without truly understanding what it means.)

    You say THAT, that is believing a particular thing is, blindly following a leader..

    Okay.. Let's say for sake of argument, I believe Cheney ordered a stand down.

    Okay.. First question:

    1) Who is my leader(s).

    2) What actions have I took to "follow" them (other than happen to believe the same thing that they do).
     
  17. candycorn

    candycorn New Member Past Donor

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    Don't forget the slow R&B or haunting synthesizer soundtrack. All of these whackjob videos have them.
     
  18. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    Well to me, the 9/11 commission were truly independent, not steered/misdirected/impaired by the Bush administration, actually answered the real hard questions instead of the cherrypicked slam dunk ones which many of the family members had to figure as a sad white wash attempt, if they got all of the numbers and facts right in their report, and if none of the findings in their report were claimed as fact unless it had accompanying evidence/substantiation, then they would have more credibility..

    Unfortunatily, none of that is the case, so they are lacking credibility.

    If some scientist, if everytime he says such a law of nature is true, he showed you calculations and experiments to show it, I'd believe he had credibility.. If he ever said that a certain something is true, and that's based on the fact that Pinnocio, the known liar, told him that some elf he kidnapped told HIM, prior to burning the tapes of his hostages while they allegedly told him that... I would be dubious of such attempts to pass off such unsubstantiated heresay, passed through a known middle man destroying the real evidence, as factual, and this would call into question all of their findings and conclusions because of such shoddy standards I know they use for their information colloboration and accompanying lack of critical thinking skills: the complete oppositte of objective reasoning.
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    What do you base your 'belief' on? This will help answer the other two questions.
     
  20. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    Don't copout..

    According to you, merely holding the belief is, IN ITSELF, cult like.

    You claimed "blindly following a leader" as the criteria to which that label applies. Holding a particular belief was the qualifier, NOT anything about the origin of such belief.

    So you tell me.. What leader and how are they being followed? And how'd you gather that merely on the grounds of me holding the belief, if I've never told you I got such a belief from anybody else and you actually have to stop and ASK where I got the belief?

    Care to change your numerous comments that MERELY holding a particular belief is the same thing as being part of a cult?

    We're already making progress and effecting a change in your classification procedure.. Suddenly it's not just about having certain beliefs, it's got to have something to do with the mechanism for such belief formulation.. (STILL nowhere near what really makes a "cult" in the actual definition and meaning of the word).
     
  21. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    It's an analogy for the actions of 'truthers'. (and homeopaths and flat earthers, etc)

    If you don't care for it, supply your own.
     
  22. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    It's not... It's just you using a buzzword, incorrectly, in an attempt at ridicule of people who have a different point of view than you do.

    All you want to do is make other people and their beliefs sound crazy... That's why you try to tie them in to "cults" and flat earthers and such.

    A group might all believe in a fundamental principle, suchas reinvistigate 9/11, the world is flat, save the whales whatever, THIS alone does not make such a "cult" or anything "cult like".

    Now "actions" of truthers it's an analogy for, you say.. Great.. What such actions?

    Buying books? Attending a lecture? Posting a video on youtube? What is it these truthers actions are again, that is the same thing as worship and reverence?

    Wait I forgot you changed the definition of the word... What is it they do that is "blindly following a leader".

    And why did we get to actions anyway? You said that it was the particular belief that is cult like. You didn't say that a truther selling his house and using the money to make a giant statue of Steven Jones which he can bow in front of was cult like, such I wouldn't dispute, and there may be people out there like that, but what you said was a belief itself is cult like, and that 9/11 truth is like one big cult which is basically the message you've been trying to spread based on my readings of your last ten or so uses of the word.
     
  23. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    Analyse it all you like, its my analogy, based on my observations.

    Wonder why you would rather discuss me than the topic of this thread?
     
  24. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    What observations?!?!? Name the most "cult like" behavior you've observed among 9/11 truthers...

    Analogies have a component that is the same or similar between them.. In this case you've failed to point out what is the same between cults and 9/11 truth. Except blindly following a leader, which you've not demonstrated who or how yet for that.

    AE911truth are having trouble getting signatures in their new white house petition... Shouldn't there be people "blindly following" them? You guys always go on about how the truth movement is defunct and their rallies can't hardly gather more than a few people and blah blah yet if this were a cult, you would have had it, considering millions to billions of people in the world believe something different than you about 9/11.

    If these beliefs were truly "cult like" as you say, then they would cause people to sign petitions, hold placards, chant slogans, quit their jobs and spread truth full time, etc. But such a tiny miniscule fraction of truthers are activists.

    They mostly just chat about it over the web to kill some time or whatever, just like you and I.. Go about their lives like normal.

    If you are in a cult, you base your life around such a principle or leader.. It could certainly describe some religions (not all religions like you said).

    In other words, the point of dispute is, I'm really not seeing the similarity between believing in and adhering to a certain cause, and worshipping a certain cause.

    I was discussing your constant attempts to portray other beliefs than yours as cult like, not so much discussing you as what you're doing.. The article is great.. It did what I expected i.e. tackle some easy arguments among the truther crowd, leave the hard ones, and then just try to lump everyone together like they're all part of the same group, so they can feel like they've refuted the lot and that they and their theory is king of the hill. And then to say they wonder if the "truth movement" as they put it will come up with something different in the next ten years.. Yeah there is different in this ten years; they must have missed it.
     
  25. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

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    And how are your truther sources different than what you accuse the 9/11 Commission Report of being?
     

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