So I've been watching the hearings..

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by (original)late, Jun 23, 2022.

  1. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    A former prosecutor commented that, if this was in court, there wasn't much to factually dispute. This is the most thoroughly documented conspiracy in history. Their only real defense was to claim ignorance.

    The hearing moved on to a connect the dots for the last month of Trumps presidency. It wasn't new, but they had the principals there testifying about what happened. Having them in one place, saying the same thing, in detail, was enlightening.

    You get a picture of a deeply disturbed person who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted.
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It is easy to get that impression when you don't hear opposing opinions. But it is good that it entertains you. If politics doesn't entertain then it has no value.
     
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  3. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    It was almost a tragedy that someone as smart as Trump could 'Make America Great Again' but at the same time was his own worst enemy. I voted for Trump twice but will not again because he keeps stepping in a huge pile. I have to believe there is another person out there with Trump-like policies who will run for the office. Otherwise, I'll have to throw in the towel and shake my head at the direction this once great country is heading.
     
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  4. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Lol the level of documentation that they WANT you to see

    For instance, have they presented the evidence that Trump stated they would need 10,000 national guard the night before? You know the Congressional Testimony of Christopher Miller.

    They didn’t present that evidence? I’m shocked. They didn’t produce exculpatory evidence on trumps behalf. I wonder what else they’re not producing?
     
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  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes frustration often brings on insult. Reported.
     
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's my reaction too. The text messages, emails, and willingness of first hand witnesses to cooperate with their testimony makes the Watergate tapes look like child's play.

    Steven Engel was the former assistant attorney general for the office of legal counsel in the Trump admin. He was in the room with acting AG Rosen and acting Asst. AG Donoghue when the three men explained to Don there would be a mass resignation at the DoJ if he went through with the plan to fire Rosen, replacing him with the buffoon known as Jeffrey Clark.

    When Trump turned to Engel, who had by far served in the admin the longest, and asked his opinion of firing Rosen, he said he couldn't be a part of it. But Engel said something else that got through to the Orange Fraud.

    He said no one in the country was going to read Clark's letter. The one purporting to put the entire weight of the DoJ behind the idea GA should throw out its election results and let the legislature pick new electors supporting Trump. That nobody was going to find evidence of voter fraud. He said what the country will pay attention to is after having gone through 2 AG's Trump finally settled on an environmental lawyer, unqualified to be AG, because he was willing to do what no other high ranking DoJ official would agree to.

    Bingo! Trump understood. He wasn't persuaded not to fire Rosen by virtue of it being an attempt to corruptly use the DoJ to suit his needs. He was persuaded by the optics, by how it would look. Causing a constitutional crisis was not the issue for Trump. How things would be seen by the public was the primary concern.


    The House Jan. 6 committee hearing on Thursday afternoon focused on what it said was a "brazen attempt" by then-President Donald Trump to misuse the Department of Justice for his own political gain.

    The panel heard from three former officials directly affected by Trump's pressure campaign: former attorney general Jeffrey Rosen, former deputy attorney general Richard Donoghue and former top DOJ lawyer Steve Engel, all of whom said they repeatedly told Trump allegations of widespread voter fraud were untrue.

    All three men described in stunning detail the desperate attempts by Trump and his allies to recruit the department in his plot to overturn his 2020 election loss to Joe Biden -- which culminated in a plan to replace Rosen with Jeffrey Clark, a less-qualified but loyal official who was leading the department's environmental division.

    [​IMG]
    Stunning details you might have missed from Thursday's Jan. 6 hearing on Trump's pressure campaign against DOJ
    The high-drama hearing from the House select committee detailed Trump's efforts to get the Justice Department to go along with a scheme to overturn the 2020 election.
    [​IMG] abcnews.go.com

    Of note, a judge issued a subpoena to search Clark's home because of a probability evidence of a crime would be found there.

    [​IMG]
    Trump-era DOJ official Jeffrey Clark's home searched by law enforcement
    Clark is believed to have been key to efforts by President Trump and his allies to delay certification of the 2020 election.
    [​IMG] www.cbsnews.com

    The details of Trump's corrupt, criminal behavior revealed by the committee, and the clarity with which they are being presented, is a reflection of the excellent work the members have done. It's a tremendous service to the nation. One they should be commended for.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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  7. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    If this was in court it would be thrown out immediately.
     
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  8. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Spot on!

    This is definitely a one sided presentation and a farce. Funny how they waited until close to mid-term elections to put on this Kabuki theater.
     
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  9. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Which is why it will never see a court. They KNOW they don’t have what’s needed to convict in a court of law. So they’re hoping to poison the populace with this fake, illegitimate commission by pushing their narrative and hiding evidence on prime time national television.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  10. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Well-Known Member

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    No one complained when the 911 commission didn't ask for bin Laden to present his side of the case.
     
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  11. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Bin Laden isn’t a United States citizen and therefore he has no right to a fair trial or to confront his accuser.
     
  12. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Trump's own daughter testified she believed the election wasn't stolen. If anyone would have had an opposing view it would have been his own daughter, wouldn't you agree? Point being, there were plenty of chances for opposing views...there just aren't any because of....reality
     
  13. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Court cases are decided based on eyewitness testimony all the time. The only real difference between these hearings and a court case is that there is no defense.

    It's possible that if this was an actual trial that Trump's defense team might be able to offer a counter-case. But considering that even 1 and a half years after Jan 6th no evidence of voter fraud has emerged, it's highly unlikely they would have been able to present a case that challenged the direct testimony of eyewitnesses and administration officials.

    You're projecting your emotions.
     
  14. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with finding the truth?

    This isn't a criminal trial. Plenty of Trump employees are testifying.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  15. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That might be a "real defense" for an average person being accused of committing a crime but it's not real for a President of the United States. Even an average person would likely get convicted because ignorance rarely stands up in a court of law as a valid defense. But I would be curious as to what exculpatory evidence could possibly be presented or even exists that might exonerate this cesspool of a former POTUS.
     
  16. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    This has nothing to do with finding the truth. Hence why this committee is not producing exculpatory evidence on trumps behalf.
     
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  17. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Why would 10,000 national guard be needed when never needed before? Is it because Trump was boasting again implying that he has 10's of thousands of potentially violent supporters descending on The Capitol Building all egged on to be violent by his words?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  18. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    “How did that affect your perspective about the election when Attorney General Barr made that statement?” Ivanka was asked. “It affected my perspective,” she replied. “I respect Attorney General Barr, so I accepted what he was saying.”
     
  19. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Well-Known Member

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    There is no exculpatory evidence to present.
     
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  20. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Trump has the bully pulpit and even he doesn't argue with what has been presented. He just does what is easiest for him. Call people names.

    Didn't McCarthy withdraw Republicans from the investigation when Pelosi said Jordan couldn't be on the committee. Seems to me that there may have been opportunity to put people there who would have provided exculpitory evidence for the former President.
     
  21. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    ""A former prosecutor commented that, if this was in court, there wasn't much to factually dispute.""

    It's not a court... that is the point... courts have representation from opposite sides, not just one side, and can cross-examine people like Bill Barr...
    " Mr. Barr ...you said you seen no evidence of voter fraud, please explain exactly how and what you did to investigate any and all voter election fraud to "make an effort to look into these to satisfy ourselves? Can you present to us the report of your findings in detail? ""
    "Mr. Barr..Did you literally check the data in the various audits that were completed and presented publicly that claimed voter election fraud and verified or discredit their findings?"
    "Mr. Barr...There were many sworn affidavits signed under the penalty by citizens... did you look into those allegations at all? If you found they lied and bogus did you charge those people with perjury? Did you or your department interview those complainants"
    "Mr. Barr...You said ""you were influenced by the fact the early claims you understood were completely bogus""... does this indicates you personally tossed them aside due to someone else's opinion, not your own?"
    "Mr. Barr... if a common citizen were to look for evidence of voter election fraud, where would this evidence be physically located after the election is over? Would a common citizen or even Mr. Trump have access to this evidence after the election?... "
    "Mr. Barr ... have you watched 2000 mules? You dispute the "science" which with it was made with... it is cell triangulation data used every day by law enforcement coupled with video surveillance... did you look into their methods and claims? You laughed during your testimony, why was that?"

    "Mr Barr... you told Mr. Trump the election was not stolen... was that statement based on what you have testified in the above questions? Did you make that statement to the president under the results of good honest complete investigation into voter election fraud "

    It's not a court... that is the point... ""You get a picture of a deeply disturbed person who was willing to do anything to get what he wanted"".... No you are getting a picture painted for you just like in the impeachment hearings.... the liberals just eat it up
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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  22. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately those who could offer those opposing opinions have refused to testify or have pled the fifth.
     
  23. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Yet, will not face any punishment for his crime(s).
     
  24. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    "This is the most thoroughly documented conspiracy in history. Their only real defense was to claim ignorance."
    They can claim ignorance just like Hillary... does that bother you NOW? The sticky point will be the nasty
    "intent" thingy that they claimed Hillary did not have.

    NO my liberal friend "the most thoroughly documented conspiracy in history" would be the whole Russia gate attempted coup involving Obama, Biden, Hillary and any and all three letter government agencies to overthrow an American citizen and then a duly elected president.... in fact that "conspiracy" is still in effect and it is what this OP involves... thoroughly documented and undisputable. But I'm betting the outcome may be different with our two tier justice system and who the payer.... oops I mean players are. They did not need to claim "ignorance" cause the government was involved and did a complete coverup...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  25. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    If there was a defense it would be contained in the answers to questions from the first hand witnesses who have testified.
     

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