So WHY did God create Man and the Universe?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Gorn Captain, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Was He lonely?

    Was He bored?

    Neither of those will work, because they would contradict the "perfect nature" of God. A "perfect being"....wouldn't get lonely. Loneliness would indicate a longing or a painful absence. To create a being like Man because "He wanted to show his love" would also indicate that He NEEDED to be loved in return and again show loneliness.

    If He was bored, it's worse....because a "perfect being" shouldn't suffer from boredom since they would either be incapable of such a need for distraction...or have infinite capacity to distract themselves without creating an imperfect Cosmos and an imperfect Man.
     
  2. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Keep on guessing and speculating... one day (as the scientists might suggest) you "might find an answer".
     
  3. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    A part that only God could give you the real answer ... [you could try and pray, may be you will receive an answer ...].

    This said, there is a matter about the divine conception of perfection.

    The nature of God is made also by creation [like we humans feel the need to make children, God feels the need to create].

    Now we could say "but a perfect being shouldn't feel needs".

    And here we come to the conception of perfection. The divine perfection is quite human [it's said in the Bible that we look a bit like God, in which sense? I wonder ...]. God is not a rational machine. He is a Person. Perfection is also about feeling emotions, needs and all the aspects of human existence [again, it's the Holy Text to tell us that God is similar to us].

    So the question is quite out of context, since we project our limited awareness about perfection on God ...
     
  4. Vanka

    Vanka New Member

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    To atheists these questions are just a silly waste of time. :)
     
  5. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    [TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
    [TR]
    [TD]Heb 6:1

    [/TD]
    [TD]ΒΆTherefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Heb 6:2
    [/TD]
    [TD][TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
    [TR]
    [TD]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD] Heb 6:3







    [/TD]
    [TD][TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
    [TR]
    [TD]And this will we do, if God permit.

    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    [/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]



    I think that last line pretty well sums it up.. Have we reached perfection? Are we perfect? Do we have a perfect understanding of God or of perfection?
     
  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    God created man to get internet porn...he is very patient.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    the desire to anthropomorphise your sky dad clashes with his alleged omnipotence/omniscience/omnipresence - like a box of symbols bouncing down the stairs.

    these things happen, when you try to have your cake, and eat it.
     
  8. MrConservative

    MrConservative Active Member

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    God created man so he could share the whole mystery of creation with him and share in his infinite majesty and glory in heaven if we are so lucky.
     
  9. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Curious approach to the understanding of omnipotence.

    Actually to be omnipotence means also to be able to decide to limit one's omnipotence.
    Like it means to be able to decide to limit one's omniscience [in other words God can decide not to know].

    This is in the perspective of the monotheist God of the Abrahamic tradition.

    I'm not antropomorphising my "sky dad", I base my conception of divine omnipotence on what I can infer from the holy texts.

    At the end, it's just God to explain, in a very clear way, this concept ... to Moses.

    God states to be an absolute. An absolute can be, or cannot be, all or nothing.

    I think that a quantum approach to divinity could help: we cannot know with totally accuracy all the values of a physical matrix of a particle and we pretend to be able to understand and to grasp the infinity of God's divinity.

    From the perspective of a monotheist individual, this is quite curious.

    Anyway acceptable, from a philosophical perspective: don't get me wrong, I can understand that from a more materialistic and limited point of view, my arguments sound more ab-surd than ab-solute ....
     
  10. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    intersting response.

    Of course it is predicated on the intitial belief that "god" is devine, omini/potent/present/scient as taken from a book written by primitive humans.

    Humans are the ones that have defined the limits of every god created and assigned to them various attributes and characteristics.

    I do agree that a mere human can't possibly grasp the nature of a creator of the universe and all life. To even attempt to do smacks of our anthrocentric conceit. But that hasn't stopped billions from believing in their own version of a creator nor claiming to a personal relationship with same.

    Oh well chacun son gout.
     
  11. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Not to underline that, from our human perspective, we cannot be sure that God is God.

    I explain: even about the God of Abraham we cannot "certify" that He created the universe. How can we know it? From a rational viewpoint. It's impossible.

    Even if [reasoning by absurd] we ask God

    "prove you created the universe"

    and God creates a universe identical to this one where we live in a while, just snapping the finger ... [ok. We have to add that God would protect us from the inflation of this new universe, created in a different space-time, otherwise we would become energy for the new universe ...], well ...

    pragmatically and rationally, the God of Abraham would have proved to be able to create a universe like this one, but not that He created this universe [even if I do doubt that after such a demonstration someone would still arise doubts ... anyway that's it].
     
  12. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    God needed to take a dump
     
  13. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Obviously YOU don't have an answer...just a snark...as usual.
     
    Woolley and (deleted member) like this.
  14. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Does God feel negative emotions? Boredom, loneliness, sadness?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why did He feel the need to share it?
     
  15. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Just a matter of equal opportunity. You snark, so then I snark. Got it now?
     
  16. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Actually, I answer questions....maybe later with a snark. But try to show that the question doesn't make me "uncomfortable" or is "beyond my ability to comment on".

    There's where we differ.

    I think it's pretty obvious by your participation on this Forum, there are questions you've never asked yourself about your own belief, or do not wish to have asked about it because it makes things too complicated for you.
     
  17. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I absolutely agree that the existence or non-existence of "god" cannot be definitively proven.

    I come from the school of thought that says "non-existent until proven otherwise". That's why I am an agnostic atheist.
     
  18. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    There are probably things that could be asked on this forum relating to your 'beliefs' that you would also be uncomfortable with. Should we get into those beliefs just to test the validity of my intuitive thoughts on that subject? Beliefs are not restricted to 'religious' beliefs. Therefore, I would suggest that there are questions pertaining to your 'beliefs' that you have never asked yourself about your own beliefs or do not wish to have asked about it because it makes things too uncomfortable and too complicated for you.
     
  19. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Incorp....your FIRST reaction to my question...was to snark and dodge answering it.

    It's becoming a pattern.

    Along with your "Nathan Thurm" "I'm not being defensive, YOU're being defensive" style and "Can you prove that?" throaway line.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLBQxk72NY

    How many Original Posts have you started...stating something that you believe or even hinting at what you believe? Any?
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the bible God is not perfect, God says he is a Jealous Vengeful God.. that is far from a perfect God in my book
     

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