Social Security trust funds now projected to run out of money sooner than expected due to Covid

Discussion in 'Social Security' started by Lil Mike, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    how much, you said a poor man could do this, give us some details
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,287
    Likes Received:
    22,667
    Trophy Points:
    113

    First, no the tax will never be lowered because the declining number of workers in the upcoming generations means that fewer and fewer workers will be supporting retirees, so the tax is only going to go up unless there is some weird gen-Z baby boom, which I don't anticipate.

    Second, I'm a current worker, and I would rather FICA taxes go up now to make sure that I get my benefits rather than have them crap out when I'm too old to do anything about it. I'm not too old now so since that's the only way to fix the problem, I'm open to that solution.
     
    FreshAir likes this.
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    raising the income cap, 90% of Americans would not be effected by that

    80% of Americans already pay the tax for every dollar they earn, the rich can pay it for a few more of theirs too
     
    Seth Bullock likes this.
  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,317
    Likes Received:
    48,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    More of your usual nonsense.
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,317
    Likes Received:
    48,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So we are now judging an entire party from a comment from a single individual?

    Does this work both ways or does it only go one way?

    And the word "suggests" tells me it's probably a bunch of crap.

    But it is what you want to hear so go ahead and run with it
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  7. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2021
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    4,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I suspect that would require Social Security to not be considered an insurance plan to be disbursed from a dedicated trust fund paid into by workers. Change the structure to a welfare program paid out of general treasury funds.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    isn't that what the right wants to do to the left, just denounce the loon
     
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    nope, would be the same, just would work, and Social Security would be saved, they would add another bracket, right now it's 90%,35%,15% - it would change to 90%,35%,15%,2% for payouts

    raise the cap to about 400k

    democrats should push this hard, if republicans try to block it, they would lose the midterms
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  10. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2021
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    4,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    When you make payroll taxes they are known as Federal Insurance Contributions Act taxes (FICA.} Those contributions fund the Social Security retirement payment. Notice that the program is called insurance, because Roosevelt could have never sold it as a welfare program in 1935. Of course, this is typical government deception, they can never be honest.


    https://fee.org/articles/social-security-and-the-insurance-illusion/
    Social Security and the Insurance Illusion

    "Nevertheless, FDR pushed hard for a dedicated payroll tax specifically so it would be connected in voters’ minds to their benefits in the way the premiums are connected to insurance payments—to create the illusion of property, contract, and legal, moral, and political entitlement. As FDR infamously declared, the dedicated payroll taxes “are political all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions. . . . With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.”

    In anticipation of a constitutional challenge, Social Security officials went out of their way to purge their informational materials of insurance language. A 1937 pamphlet, written shortly before the Supreme Court decisions, described the program accurately and with a minimum of manipulative art: “The United States Government will send checks every month to retired workers . . . under the old-age benefits plan . . . The same law that provides these benefits for you and other workers sets up certain new taxes to be paid to the United States government.”

    The 1938 pamphlet, published after the decisions, shows the insurance-framing project once again in full flower: “Your [Social Security] card shows that you have an insurance account with the U.S. Government—Federal old age and survivors insurance. This is a national insurance plan for all workers in commerce and industry . . . . [T]axes are like the premium on any other kind of insurance.”​
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,640
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The short answer is the Left was not interested in solving the problem. They're not very good about running balanced budgets or caring about not financially saving for the future. And they just assumed that a crisis would ultimately force tax money to have to come from the general fund, which would probably pay for the poorer people but leave the richer ones having to suffer the cuts. This would of course turn it into an income redistribution scheme.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,640
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is a very similar situation with the National Debt.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it's not welfare, it's one of the best programs to ever be passed
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,640
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry, it's a socialized system. Everyone's in the same boat and everyone will pay. The older generation and the younger generation.
    If the Left gets their way, those who were expecting more money and those who will be earning more money will have to give up more to make up the lack.

    If you paid in more money, you will not get more money back.

    Should have seen this coming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    nope, this is all that is needed to fix this

     
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,640
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why should they be? The Left at this rate is probably going to ruin it anyway.

    Why even try anymore when we know what's going to happen?

    The US will just turn into a second-rate economy, like Brazil or India.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,640
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you'll find far more resistance against this from the Republican Party than you thought, and more than a little resistance from within the Democrat Party as well.

    Realistically, the most likely solution that will be put in place is a bad one. Raise the age at which retirees can start collecting and heavily penalize for the rest of their retirement if they begin to collect earlier than that.

    It's a terrible solution, but politically it is the easiest, since it only involves a simple age change.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  18. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,554
    Likes Received:
    9,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The stats told you that
     
  19. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,554
    Likes Received:
    9,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I can't speak for every industry but I know I read that the police departments had a massive wave of cops retiring early and digging into their pensions because why the hell would you want to be a police officer in this day and age with this administration in charge
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,640
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why should they? There is not enough and will not be enough money to pay you what you were promised.

    (Plus the promise isn't exactly the same type of promise as a treasury bond is. Even in that case most of the Left is anxious to figure out ways for the US to renegade on their debt obligations, like try to pay it off through inflation)

    Just take solace in the fact that that money was spent on better causes like paying for sex transitions for members of the military, or bailing out younger people who borrowed money for college but then couldn't pay it back.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  21. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,554
    Likes Received:
    9,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You think he'd remember this because I remember his being one of the members on these boards that was hysterical over that fact thinking that they were opening to early
     
    Joe knows likes this.
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if we keep allowing the right to give more tax cuts to the rich and allow greedy corporations to excessively outsource our jobs and excessively import goods, that will happen
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,317
    Likes Received:
    48,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He repeats the same failed talking points so often that I can tell who you two were talking about without even scrolling up to see.
     
    roorooroo and Lil Mike like this.
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you underestimate how much the American people want Social Security to survive

    raising the age is not a valid option, raising the caps, most American support that
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
    Pollycy likes this.
  25. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The boomer problem and the declining population should not be lumped together. Yes we live in times with generally declining population which instantly put pressures on ponzi scheme type systems that relies on the younger population replacing the outgoing population BUT the decline for the boomer exodus from the workforce is much greater than your steady decline. What you are proposing is to increase taxes at a rate to make the program sustainable for this abnormal decline instead of the steady decline the world faces.

    It is quite conceivable that once the boomer population dies off and with some reforms to the system it is sustainable at its current rate or perhaps a minor increase but to change the SS system to keep it 100% solvent with the boomer issue is a much larger tax increase.

    My point is why put the burden on new younger workers to fix a problem they had nothing to do with. This is not like some natural disaster that no one saw coming. Economist have predicted this for years. I remember joking when I started working over 20 years ago that I doubt any of us would even receive SS by the time we retire. The program was no sustainable and everyone knew it.

    My opinion is if the cut to SS causes societal problems for the elderly we should handle it with welfare. Welfare comes from general revenues and everyone has skin in the game. You can be retired and living off investments and pensions and still pay taxes. Welfare also has the advantage that the payment stop once the recipients are gone. FICA is only paid by those that are working. Once you increase it, it will not go down to compensate for the death of the boomer population. We will not recalc and say well now that the boomers are gone we can lower the amount but X%. We will not just tax enough to sustain the declining population but less that the amount need for the boomers. Instead we will expand the program. I keep asking the same question is why should the new workers, who have huge financial concerns already, like paying a substantial percentage of their income to rent, have to subsidize the failure of the SS program ignored by the people collecting it. To add insult to injury, a lot of the people that benefit from the higher tax do not even have to pay it. Think about all of the politicians elected since the boomers. Which one ran on fixing the problem? They could have increased FICA back then when it was obviously the workforce would decline once boomers retired but no one did anything because it would have meant higher taxes for them.

    If you are not a boomer then chances of the workforce decline by the time you retire will be more less drastic than the boomer decline. In theory the current rate along with potential minor increase and reform to the SS security payout system can keep it sustainable. The biggest problem is the boomers will exhaust the entire trust well beyond what they contributed. BUT this should highlight the problems with the SS program. Why it does not work. People feel total outrage when ask to wear a mask in supermarkets and are willing to get arrested and march in the streets, yet for important policies like Social Security it is crickets from the masses.
     

Share This Page