Socialism Is So Hot Right Now, Thank Bernie Sanders

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Space_Time, May 24, 2017.

  1. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Is today's version of progressivism really the heir to the early 20th centuries Socialist Party? Will it get very far? Is 'socialism' really such a scary thing?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/socialism-hot-now-thank-bernie-162329020.html

    Politics
    Socialism Is So Hot Right Now. Thank Bernie Sanders.
    Eliot Nelson,HuffPost Mon, May 22 9:23 AM PDT

    WASHINGTON ― Consider the Bernie Bro (Wellus actuallius), an aggressive subgenus of Sen. Bernie Sanders’ supporters.

    In the year since Sanders lost the Democratic primary, members of this species have been pushed out of their native habitat and forced to migrate to new ecosystems. Some nested down in social media, encroaching on classmates’ Facebook posts and female journalists’ Twitter updates with condescending diatribes about Slavoj Žižek. Others made their way to the hostile environs of Donald Trump’s campaign, finding sustenance in the idea that there was no difference between the Republican and Democratic nominees for president. Still more found their way to your dinner table, nourishing themselves on ponderous expositions of neoliberalism, where and how they refill their beer growlers, and why Bernie would’ve won.

    Herds of other Bernie Bros, however, have staked out a far more hospitable environment: the Democratic Socialists of America, or DSA. For the uninitiated, DSA ― the inheritor of the American Socialist Party, co-founded by Eugene Debs and instrumental in the progressive reforms of the early 20th century ― is a chapter-based national political advocacy organization that crusades for policies such as a higher minimum wage, safer working conditions and universal health care.

    DSA openly uses the big, bad, scary s-word that countless Republican consultants have used to smear Democrats over the years. And despite decades of efforts to stigmatize it, socialism is kind of in right now.

    This was partly fueled by Sanders’ underdog presidential campaign ― he identifies as a democratic socialist but caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate ― as well as by an economic recovery that has left many working people in the dust, experiencing a growing sense of disillusionment with the Democratic Party.

    “We were highly visible in the Sanders campaign,” Joseph Schwartz, a DSA national vice chair and professor of political science at Temple University in Philadelphia, told HuffPost. Schwartz said DSA’s growth began to accelerate as the Sanders campaign picked up steam in mid-2015, and has continued since Trump took office.

    DSA has rooted itself in the millennial psyche with astonishing speed. A quiz posted on Reductress earlier this month was titled, “Is He Into You, Just a Friend, or Trying to Get You to Join the Democratic Socialists?” Comedian Rob Delaney regularly promotes the group on social media. And that rose emoji you keep see popping up on Twitter? It’s likely a reference to both DSA’s logo and that of Socialist International, the global consortium of socialist organizations. Along with #resist and #NeverthelessShePersisted, the rose emoji has remained one of the more enduring social media trends since last November.

    “The real massive influx was starting with the day Trump was elected,” Schwartz recalled. “Many people want to fight back against Trump, but they also realize that the centrist, pro-corporatist views of the Democratic Party are partially what gave rise to him.”

    Socialist group at the White House, May 15, 1920.
    DSA officials say their member rolls shot up from around 8,500 on Election Day to about 21,000 as of early May, and they’re getting upwards of 10 requests a week to help open new chapters. New members are overwhelmingly young and tech-savvy, thanks in no small part to the groundwork the Sanders campaign laid by bringing millions of young people into politics.

    This engagement was on full display at a May Day rally in Washington, D.C., earlier this month. Around noon, some 100 or so activists from a variety of progressive organizations gathered in a small park in D.C.’s Mount Pleasant neighborhood. Making small talk near the obligatory drum circle were around 10 members of DSA’s D.C.-area chapter, nearly all of whom had signed up to join DSA on or after Election Day.

    DSA’s contingent was one of the largest on hand, but was nearly all white and male ― contrasting sharply with the rest of the crowd, which was far more diverse and representative of the neighborhood’s large Salvadoran community. The DSA attendees who spoke with HuffPost said they had joined DSA since November and were first drawn to it through the Sanders campaign.

    “Ever since Trump won, I think people have been feeling very scared and want to do something, and DSA is a great organization to channel that,” said Nick from Poughkeepsie, New York, who declined to give his last name. “I had an awakening during Sanders campaign. I was monitoring the growth of all these organizations and saw that DSA was gaining all these members and felt like DSA spoke to me.”

    James Mathias, 25, from northern Virginia, had previously volunteered for Barack Obama’s first presidential campaign and later participated in the Occupy Wall Street movement. After voting for Sanders in the 2016 primary, he voted for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton in the general election. While he wasn’t wild about Clinton’s policies, he felt compelled to vote for her out of political necessity, given Virginia’s swing state status.

    Mathias said political realism drew him to DSA and that he has yet to experience the organizational or political disappointment he did with Occupy and Obama.

    “Each time, I kind of drifted in and out, because both of those things petered out, either literally or philosophically,” Mathias recalled. “Occupy wasn’t focused on engaging with existing political structures. DSA is focused on building power for political ends. I really see a bias for action and not shying away from political structures.”

    Indeed, DSA doesn’t fashion itself as a vehicle for high-level political office ― most of its members who have run for office have run in municipal elections ― but rather as “America’s largest Socialist organization,” per its website. This isn’t a wishy-washy expression of being (The Socialist International was in our hearts all along!), but an acknowledgement that its foundational work is in lending organizational support to candidates from other parties and organizations whose policies align with its agenda.

    This includes other liberal advocacy organizations and economically progressive politicians like Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) and Sanders.

    DSA didn’t endorse Clinton in the 2016 general election, but its chapters actively organized a “Dump Trump” movement targeted at the Republican nominee. That left open the possibility of voting for Green Party nominee Jill Stein or even Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson, but DSA officials told HuffPost they expected a large number of their supporters would back Clinton.

    Despite DSA’s often antagonistic attitude toward the Democrats, Democratic officials say they’ll happily accept DSA’s support whenever it’s willing to offer it.

    “We welcome the help of groups across the country who are fighting to defeat Republicans and elect progressive leaders that stand for the same values that make our party so great,” DNC spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa told HuffPost in an email.

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) speaks at a federal contract workers rally to celebrate Andrew Puzder's decision to withdraw from consideration to be secretary of labor on Feb. 16, 2017.
    While a membership of 21,000 is still small as political entities go ― progressive advocacy group MoveOn.org touts over 7 million members, for example ― DSA members’ engagement has caught the attention of the progressive community. They showed up in large numbers at May Day rallies across the country this year, including a New York City rally that attracted well over 1,000 DSA members.

    “The people who are joining DSA are people who are extremely active,” said Bob Master, a veteran labor activist and the co-founder and co-chair of the Working Families Party of New York. This gives the group tremendous leverage, Master said: Having a young, energized and tech-fluent base of volunteers is a welcome addition to any political coalition.

    DSA’s willingness to adapt to the current political framework and engage with other organizations has drawn plaudits from other progressive activist and organizations.

    “DSA has been an excellent ally, joining with our members in canvassing area businesses; they hosted a fundraiser party that raised $1,000 and helped us expand our operations,” said Hannah Kane, an organizer at Many Languages One Voice, a Washington, D.C., immigrant community group that led the May Day protest. “They’ve just been all-around excellent partners.”

    George Goehl, the co-director of People’s Action & People’s Action Institute, a Chicago-based advocacy organization, partly attributes DSA’s rise to “the Democratic Party and its constant tacking toward the middle and feeling like the answers to its problems lay in a more moderate, less-structural set of reforms.”

    “We failed in the last election because we had a candidate who was unable to tap into the anger that people are feeling,” echoed Master. “The Democratic Party cannot limit itself to saying ‘Trump is a bad guy because he fired James Comey.’ [It] has to speak to the growing sense of economic stagnation and diminishment.”
     
  2. IMMensaMind

    IMMensaMind Banned

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    I regularly ask this question of Bernie supporters, but with no cogent response to date. I'll offer it again.

    Bernie rails against Government corruption rather regularly. He says we need to solve Government corruption/cronyism/etc.

    Then he offers fiscal/social policy which will inevitably expand the coffers of this same Government he attacks.

    How, exactly, can Bernie's claim that Government is corrupt be solved by giving Government more control over taxpayer money?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  3. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha! Thank Bernie and Venezuela.
     
  4. IMMensaMind

    IMMensaMind Banned

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    Well, a day has passed.

    If the leftist ideology which Bernie embraces is so sound, wouldn't you think scads of progs would be right here immediately and definitively answering my question?

    Over and over again, the world has experienced leftism/progressivism. The result has been the same every time: misery.

    There is no good answer to my question; certainly the liberal brain trust (an oxymoron if ever there was) hasn't convened to produce one.
     
  5. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who is Bernie Sanders? Oh yea, he is the guy with the bad hair and Hillary's knife in his back.
     
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  6. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    There is a situation that we are currently living here in Quebec, that may be the answer to your query: Relatively recently, it has been found that Quebec' governance, provincial like municipal, is deeply corrupted - the tip of the iceberg, really (see Charbonneau Commission).

    It isn't your obvious 100 bucks to a policeman so he'll look the other way: It is the private sector that greases one (or more commonly, both) party for public contracts and favors, for which the privates then overcharge since the public pays. In the case of roads, the gubbermint's engineers are all going to the pivate sector, leaving only the young and inexperienced to check out plans made by more crafty than they.

    I believe that's what Sanders was talking about. The current corruption is made by wealthy lobbies who buy, quite in the open, your elected representatives, effectively stealing control of the nation from "The People". They have to the ressources to do that since NAFTA, in our cases (while we naively believed that their new advantages would make them lower prices - HAH!).

    Alas for Sanders and for everyone but the 1%, the pandora box was opened: The shift of power from elected government to private interest is, IMO, irreversible under the present conditions. Nevermore shall the state be able to wrestle power from the private sector, a loss because a government's goal is to care for its people, whereas a private's is its own benefits.
     
  7. IMMensaMind

    IMMensaMind Banned

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    Did I seem confused regarding what Sanders was referencing or something?

    I do not believe you answered the question; only provided an example of what Sanders (and, ostensibly, other leftists) describes as cronyism.

    We didn't really need that; we all know it not only exists, but is commonplace.

    My question is: how does increasing taxes to additionally empower Government make it LESS likely that corruption and graft will continue?

    And how did NAFTA cause this problem?

    You want lobbying to stop? Stop granting Government more and power to CONTROL American lives in every way. The more power is granted; the more motivation there is to INFLUENCE that control.

    This is obvious to people like me, but clearly not obvious to people on the left.

    The question can be asked every day, and I do not expect a good answer from the Left, as the proper answer condemns their goal of increasing Centralization.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  8. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    It is, and that's what Sanders was saying as well, IMO.

    Less corruption from the private sector, that is. Corruption of the individual cannot be totally eliminated, but corruption by the system can. Nationalization is one avenue (we're really moving away from neoliberalism here, an utopia), thighter controls are another, and both require ressources to set up. It's taking power from the private sector for the society at large. In theory, each buck the govt makes is one buck you made.

    By giving trans-border power to the big ones, who now use them for cheap labour or for evading due taxes, creating not a decrease in their products' cost, but rather a mass of profits that are used to corrupt what's left of your system.

    There might be a comprehension problem here: First, it isn't the govt that corrupts the private sector, but the contrary.

    Secondly, that exactly what these private lobbies do, steal more and more power from the government you elected in your naivité.

    No comments.

    You're no only supposed to have a voice, but ears as well.
     
  9. IMMensaMind

    IMMensaMind Banned

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    :facepalm: I know what Sanders is saying. I'm not arguing any confusion or misapprehension regarding what Sanders is saying. I'm arguing the stupidity of what he wants to DO about it.




    Private sector? Why not demand less corruption from the public sector? Or can you not find fault?

    We're talking about how people in the private sector interact with the Government process. How, exactly, can you divorce legal actions in the private sector with cronyism which cannot exist - by definition - without Government involvement? Without bought politicians who are empowered by a stupid dependency class people to control far too many aspects of our economic and social lives?



    Nationalism? Utopia? You actually believe that Nationalism eradicates cronyism? Graft?

    Where? You want to talk about the world's most notable and recent example of such a thing? Venezuela?

    Tell us all about how Nationalizing a country eliminates graft, Komrade.

    Also: :lol: @ "each buck the Government makes is one buck you made". That's not laughable; it's insane. The Government doesn't MAKE wealth. The Government prints money as a means to facilitate commerce - where the wealth IS made - and then takes a large portion of that wealth for itself.

    To believe otherwise is a level of daffy that is immutable.




    A system that has been given little or no power to influence commerce or social life is not a system worth corrupting. Our Constitution was written as a standing acknowledgement of the fact that Government Corrupts, and Absolute Government corrupts Absolutely.


    That isn't a comprehension problem; your claim is not facts in evidence. They corrupt each other. Those who seek power do so by consolidating power in Government, and then sell it to the highest bidder.

    And you support that continuation by buying the new fable in line about how there are so many needy people; so many new roles for the Government to play.

    The next sob story; the next class warfare screed about how the 'rich' aren't paying their fair share - and you gobble it up and vote for those who ensure our taxes continue unabatedly to increase.

    And those whose stories you bought gleefully ridicule your naivete.


    I elected? I want a traditional Constitutionally enumerated role for Fed Gov, including no FED; no federal income taxes, and a return to States Rights.

    What do YOU want?


    I've listened and responded. Where in your long response did you address my core question: how does Government corruption decrease by increasing taxes to Government?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  10. IMMensaMind

    IMMensaMind Banned

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    Dupe
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  11. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    I've rather had the more comparable Scandinavian countries in mind, which are thriving for decades now.

    I am going to concentrate in the answer, so you won't get distracted. Ready?

    Stronger controls and more nationalization (which will be paid for with taxes) will diminish corruption of government by the private sector (by the way of donations, money, favors etc). Something like gvt engineers instead of private ones - just an exemple. Which will result in 1. better governmental services at a lower prices and 2. less intrusion by the private sector, which amounts to said corruption.

    Personal corruption in individual cases will likely stay the same. You have been answered. Before continuing on other subjects, let's get this one out of the way, shall we?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017

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