Thank you for your post. I'll try to give you a better response ASAP. My life has been rather hectic. Meanwhile, I thought you might find this Youtube clip interesting. It helps answer some of your questions. I was especially intrigued with what Bernie calls "corporate socialism," which I find as distasteful as he does. Share your thoughts?
You're right. But at the same time, the only way to dispel the ignorance and confusion to which you refer, is to explain it to them. Meanwhile, it's good to help people understand democratic socialism, but if we call it "socialism" we perpetuate the ignorance and confusion about socialism. My hope is that we can move to democratic socialism over the terms of one or two Democratic governments, and during those terms build socialism by creating a growing, advancing socialist economy and do this by increasing the presence of worker-owned, worker-run co-ops.
Haha .. no it isn't. It can't exist, not ever. You will NEVER have 100% agreement to wage slavery (at a lower return than minimum wage is today), and anything less will fail spectacularly.
If you want to move to more social programs, you'd better start championing Capitalism as if your life depends upon it, because social programs sure do!
Bernie has made the important point, & he's right, that the U.S. is already a form of socialist country. Bernie says Trump is a "corporate socialist," meaning the U.S. government gives financial & tax & legal aid to large corporations & their super wealthy owners & CEOs, while leaving those of the middle & lower working classes to fend for themselves. I think he's right.
Is it "pure capitalism" that we in the U.S. give financial aid to large corporations, or large tax cuts, or pass laws designed to help specific corporations or their owners or CEOs, while leaving the working classes to fend for themselves? That's what we have here in the U.S.. Is that what YOU call capitalism?
Here we touch on a subject worthy of another thread, how individuals ideology, belief system, or tribal superstitions can blind them to anything outside their rigid worldview. Extreme examples are catholics who, despite the horrifying revelations of systemic child abuse, still imagine the only way they’ll get to heaven is via the direct agency of priest/bishop/cardinal/pope as intermediaries between them and God. Others are Randian Objectivists, white supremacists etc - - ad nausea. Randian Objectivists have followed the simplistic philosophy of the great author to the letter to such an extent if any of them dared question any of their great leaders black and white claims they’d be thrown out of their little Objectivist discussion group or whatever. I’ve been in one when this happened. The shame of this is the core of Rand’s philosophy constitutes a shining light amidst the sewer of contemporary academic philosophy . Evident here in several posts made by Objectivists is manifest a delusion works such as Atlas Shrugged describe the real world. In some ways we might be better off if we could identify the bad, mad and lazy from the brilliant, self contained and industrious as totally seperate morally black and white tribes. The consistent usage of the term ‘parasite’ to describe anyone less able than themselves is absurd, especially when we consider Rand herself relied upon social security towards the end of her life. Maybe Ayn though, given her assertion all taxation was theft, imagined she was only receiving due reparations rather than insurance? As to the claim "I'd love it and cheer it if there were some magic way that everybody in the world could have everything they want in life and not have to do anything unpleasant or tiresome to get it. It would be great if there were some kind of big "overlord" administration in control of everything and everyone on the planet that would make everyone wealthy, healthy, and happy.” Yet another attempt to pretend the real world and it’s occupants operate as a mirror image of Atlas Shrugged. On the other side it would be a vast improvement if the industrious and lilly white heroes of Atlas Shrugged were a reflection of those at the helm of so called free enterprise today, The sad truth is a vast majority of them are as corrupt as Rand paints the Wesley Mooches of the world. Do I need to detail the obscenity of the Wall St parasites who held out their hands for Washington’s tax payer funded rescue package? Paradoxically Rand reviewed and recommended a text written by a wharf labourer ( forgotten his name and my copy has vanished - - Eric Hoffer?) titled ‘The True Believer’ which analyses at great depth the dangers of group think from religious dogma to marxist theory.
No it isn't. It's simply the richest capitalist democracy. ALL social programs (when purchased as products, as they are in America) are funded by capitalism. There is no other way to get them.
I'm not commenting on your specific corporate goings-on. I'm saying capitalism is industry which generates profit, and that profit is the ONLY thing funding your social programs. They're not being funded by ivory buttons, or bartered for free range eggs. Where do you think all that money - to pay for all of those social programs - comes from?
Exactly. It is the certain inevitability of ANY species which abandons universal input. We are no exception, and the evidence for that inevitability is all around us ... in every human society which has enabled the abandoment of universal input. It's sheer vanity to think we're somehow exempt, just because none of us presently know what it feels like to starve.
No it is not. It's actually the only morally sound position to take! In a subsistence collective - arguably the most 'fair' model of existence yet evolved, precisely why it's still Number One universally - there is always a small surplus available for the elderly, the sick, and the very young. These are the ONLY members of the collective who require it, for obvious reasons. Anyone not falling into one of those categories, and demanding unearned access to the surplus, is very clearly a parasite, and should not be tolerated by the collective. To tolerate them is UNfair to those remaining, because it compromises the very members who genuinely need that surplus (the old, the sick, and the very young).
What about corporations & large businesses that won't/can't/don't support themselves? You & I live in a country that tries head over heels to offer subsidies to large corporations & businesses, & tax breaks to the super wealthy, while forcing the working classes to fend for themselves. As Bernie Sanders has so eloquently noted in his speeches recently, this is a form of socialism that he calls "corporate socialism." I agree. It contrasts with Democratic Socialism in its prime focus. Corporate socialism concentrates on helping big business & the super wealthy. Democratic Socialism concentrates on making the lives of the working class better. I think Bernie makes a good point.
And does that include all those subsidies & programs America reserves for corporations, big business "too big to fail," & tax breaks for the super wealthy? Is that all part of capitalism or a twisted form of corporate socialism?
I'm more interested in the human impact of our economic systems than the theories of economic systems. I don't personally care what form our economics take, but I want that system to support working Americans as much as it supports the super wealthy. If it doesn't, I want it changed.
IOW this is a capitalist country, and capitalism is responsible for all its wealth, its strengths, its poverty, its weaknesses, and its corruption.
The 'system' isn't required to take care of working people. The system is required to take care of law and order, roads, schools, water safety, the sick, and turning the street lights off at 6am. Make these immense privileges work for you so well, that you never need to concern yourself with what people in corner offices are doing. And never EVER complain about the 'super wealthy' as long as you're a fan of capitalism funded social programs.
Sure. And how lucky are we to live in First World capitalist democracies! We could have been born to a poor family in Bangladesh. Or in some part of Africa without access to enough food to keep us alive.
1. Nice cop out. And which of the items listed in your post do you really believe the Trump Republicans are actually taking care of now? The only one in your list I see as a Republican/Trump success is turning the street lights off at six, & only that because it's computer controlled & automated. 2. As Bernie Sanders has so eloquently pointed out in his recent speeches, our largest social programs are designed to subsidize big business in America. I really don't support those types of socialist programs. I'd prefer socialist programs that deal with benefits for the working classes.
