Socialized vs Fee for Service healthcare...the pros and cons

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by slackercruster, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    My view is we need both in the US. Just one system won't cut it.

    Why do we need 2 systems in the US? Well the rich wont take anything less than the best and the average Joe and Jane can't afford the best. So, we need both.

    In the US we got the best healthcare system in the world, but it is unaffordable by 98% of the people. Obamacare brought in the uninsurable with preexisting conditions and as it did, it ruined healthcare for the rest of the people. The end result of Obamacare is we now have ever escalating premiums, stupendous deductibles and even then, the insured has to pay 50% of all med bills many times.

    I've never actually studied socialized healthcare other than hearing bits and pieces from the other countries that use it. So lets here the pros and cons for Socialized healthcare (Universal) vs Fee for Service healthcare (what we got in the US).

    If we did get a socialized plan, my idea for funding is an add-on sales tax for everything from products to services. That way we can get the foreign tourists to pay for some of it. I mean the US is the world policemen, so the rest of the world should chip in some to take care of us or they will be speaking Chinese or Russian without a healthy US.

    A problem I see with socialized healthcare is keeping costs in budget and greedy humans have a tendency to F'up everything they get their hands on. The other issue is the fee for service healthcare not wanting any competition and killing any socialized plans. With competition they can not do as much raping. That is great for them and just more declining health for the rest of America.

    The only complaint I've heard about other countries socialized healthcare is the wait time. Maybe so, but waiting a few weeks or a even a month or two is better than never even getting in to the doctor.

    What would socialized healthcare cover? You got a bursting appendix you can get it fixed right away. You need a heart transplant...get 4 jobs to pay for the rich system.
     
  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Hold it right there. A simple search will show you every attempt to measure our outcomes vs. those of other countries leaves us in the dust.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_of_healthcare

    http://whvnc.us/download/health-care-outcomes-by-country.pdf

    (Search results) https://duckduckgo.com/?q=health+care+outcomes+by+country&t=ha&search_plus_one=form&ia=web
     
  3. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Here is an interesting thought or two about the current Republican changes to Obamacare.

    First, it looks like they are mainly keeping Obamacare while stripping out taxation features with the main effect being a huge tax break for the very wealthy.

    Secondly, if I am right it seems they are moving more to Preferred Provider insurance. If so, this limits choices for providers even while they are raving about "increasing choices".

    And third, "increased choices"??? Really? I'm sure of all things I want to wade through more plans each with different combinations of alternatives for annual changes, options, premiums, deductibles, copays, exclusions, annual maximums, lifetime maximums, out-of-pocket maximums, etc. It's already a gamble to hope we selected the best one to fit us without knowing what medical issues we may face in the coming year.

    How much simpler to just go to the doctor, get treatment, and have it covered.
     
  4. soup nazi

    soup nazi New Member

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    A big reason that we are behind is that we have millions of people without access to care. The quality of our healthcare is excellent, if you can get it.
     
  5. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    There will never be a perfect health insurance system. No matter what, a few people are going to fall through the cracks, not be eligible for free healthcare, but not be able to afford to pay for it. This was the way it was before and it is still the way it is with socialized healthcare. We need to think about what is good for more Americans, for the greater good. And stop worrying about rich people having it better than the poor. Nothing is "free" and the rich will always have everything easier than the poor.
     
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  6. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    But Bridget, the incentive to have the best healthcare system will be much stronger when the rich are included in the plan the same as everyone else. Think how great a system we would have if Congress was required to be in the plan with no other safety net.
     
  7. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Put very simply, leaving health care and health insurances entirely to the free market would foster competition and that cimpetition would ensure prices (and salaries for the employed) would always meet the market value. The argument of "but what about the poor?!" is just strawman, statist bollox.,

    Monopolies are never good. In Sweden, taxes are really high and health care is "free", but health care is lacking - Nurses are quitting their jobs, the lines and waiting-times are insanely long and the restriction and regulations on the "health market" are too many to count.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Baloney. Basing healthcare on what's most profitable is a very wrong way to go. It should be based on what works best in each individual situation and that means doctors and healthcare professionals should be in charge. Big profits and big incomes become a problem beyond certain points. In Quebec recently physicians and medical professionals rejected a pay raise! - http://www.newsweek.com/500-canadian-doctors-protest-pay-raise-834813

    In that article it was stated that nurses and clerks were over overburdened and patients faced declining services because of budget cuts to the public health care system. .... -not because of inadequate profits.
     
  9. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  11. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    In England / U.K. ?
     
  12. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    Yes Medicare works great, but you are leaving out a few things. One: people start paying in to Medicare from day one when they get their first job. So if you start work at 15 you may pay in to the system for 50 years before you can use benefit number one. Two: without Medicare Supplement insurance or a Medicare Advantage plan a person can be stuck with tens of thousands of out of pocket expenses, so private insurance to the rescue is the moral of the story here.
     
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