Someone try to justify this.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ErikBEggs, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Precisely, when a person gets to Congress he is generally perceived as taking a pay cut to be patriotic. In reality, he uses the position to learn how to increase his estate quickly, then passes laws that give him advantages. That spills over to others in his bracket but locks those below out.
    That assumes he does everything legally, not accepting bribes in any form and that his zeal against raising taxes on the very rich has nothing to do with the fact that he,his friends and biggest donors are in that category.
    I oppose tax increases presently because the money will be spent on things I disapprove of and the government is wasting much of its money now. If a specific project required $100 once from every taxpayer I might approve of that.
     
  2. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You certainly don't have to convince me there is way too much legal bribery in politics.
     
  3. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Yet somehow people possessing money they earned through voluntary market transactions is an affront compared to violently redistributing it through the corrupt sieve of a government graft machine.
     
  4. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    Why are you obsessed with income tax but pay no attention to any other taxes?

    Corporate taxes fall every year, while payroll taxes shoot up (lower income folks pay these, yet you still complain).

    Lower income folks also disproportionately fund your state and local governments through property, excise, and sales taxes.
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Again...you are wasting your diatribe on me...I have made myself clear how I feel about this and it's called personal responsibility....

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    Everyone wants to demand more and more government and pay less and less...heck of a plan...how's it working out for you so far?
     
  6. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    So aside from your perpetual strawman, you blatantly ignore the falling corporate tax and millionaire rates vs. the rising payroll tax rates.
     
  7. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unless of course its the personal responsibility of the so-called job creators to create jobs with the trillions in tax cuts they got.

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    Terrible. It was a crying shame we squandered the golden opportunity of the surplus budget Clinton left us to pander tax cuts and unnecessarily ran up trillions more debt.

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    Not at all. I have no problem with people who successfully contribute to the economy making more money.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "What is the explanation of this?"

    Greed, simple as that...
     
  9. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do you rationalize that corporate taxes go down every year? Certainly you don't mean tax rates.

    Payroll taxes shoot up?.....when?
     
  10. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    Let's stop (*)(*)(*)(*)ing around with the legislated corporate tax rates that no corporations actually pay, and look at the evidence of their true effective tax rates. Corporations with their dozens of loopholes, deductions, lobbying, and accountants, are paying diddly in taxes.

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    As for payroll taxes, I'm not going to repeat myself. You are going to pretend not to understand basic graphs, like most right-wingers do when the evidence stares them in the face.
     
  11. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Anyone with half a brain cell in the computer/telecomm tech revolution could foresee large businesses diversifying operations internationally for a host of legit operational reasons, reducing their domestic tax burdens among them. A realistic graph would add in taxes paid to other sovereigns than the U.S. Awwww. the leftists chased the money away and now they want to steal it back! How typical.

    Moreover, fundamental IRC/foreign tax code context is necessary for any comparative chart among countries. We don't know for example how dividends are treated in all those companies, or literally a HOST of other tax considerations. What we do know is that leftists love to post charts of a bunch of countries compared to the US (interestingly a group of countries that ALL ADDED UP wouldn't amount to total U.S. population, together with a host of other factors making raw comparisons suspect).

    The US may simply do a higher % of international trade than those other countries, but who knows? What's almost certain is that there's so much more context involved than leftists will admit, or especially understand.

    Leftist + raw data - context = laughingstock of the educated, informed internet.
     
  12. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't really have a problem with using effective tax rates, in fact Im all for it. I just don't see those graphs as showing even the effective rate going down every year as you originally claimed. It is rare to see a leftist acknowledge effective rates, I guess I would wonder if you acknowledge effective rates when referring to when taxes were 90% on the top bracket? Ive made that effective rate argument a hundred times, and never seem to find a leftist that will acknowledge the effective rate.




    In other words, payroll taxes haven't "shot up", and you are simply avoiding the question with feigned indignation. What a clever attempt. Being backed into a corner without any gray area to exploit, if you aren't the type to admit when you are inarguably wrong, such deception was all you had left. I understand.
     
  13. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    The average effective tax rate for corporations is 12%.
     
  14. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    ...and once the corp pays tax at the corp level, then distributes those profits to shareholders, they pay personal income tax at alternatively 20% or their normal bracket, depending on whether it's a dividend or not. Oh... you... left that out somehow. Hmmm.

    Then once the shareholders get a distribution and pay income tax on it, they invest it. When it grows and they sell, they pay 20% of the gain (generally)! Then when they reinviest it, it grows some more and they sell, they pay 20% of the gain. This could continue several times until they die. Then they may be liable for more taxes.

    If nothing else, get it clear that the corporate income tax rate alone means no-thing, absolutely nothing, increasing, decreasing, trending up, trending down over even decades, about the supposed fairness of the tax code without NECESSARY CONTEXT.
     
  15. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    You are very good at making excuses and rambling on tangents.

    Like I said, the average effective tax rate on corporations is 12%.. yet they continue to whine about these sky high tax rates and "too much regulation."

    Call it like it is... bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
     
  16. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    I see, so you think the "double taxation" of corporations and capital gains tax are "tangential" to any discussion of fairness re: the amount of tax corporations pay? Well, sorry, you'd be wrong about that.
     
  17. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is this supposed to refute something that I have said? Or is it simply a reply to pretend like you are correcting me on something?
     

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