Speaking for God - "The Unforgivable Sin"

I am always amazed at the number of people who claim they know the mind of God with respect to issues that are grey.

Alcohol for example - some Churches urge abstinence "In the name of God"
The religious text does not say that this is what God thinks on the issue. So how do these people know what God thinks on this issue ?

Abortion would be another - what God thinks about Abortion is not known from the religious text - yet - people run around pretending to know what God thinks on the issue.

Premarital Sex is another - very grey - yet all these folks know what God thinks.

It is not like going over to your neighbors house - raping and killing his wife - is not a crystal clear Sin. The above are not so it is "appeal to authority" fallacy....

This is the problem with the practice of "Speaking in Tongues" - where someone divines the thoughts of God directly through the Holy Spirit.

My take on scripture is that if someone were to speak falsehoods in the name of God - make false the holy spirit .. this would be the "Sin against the Spirit" that Jesus refers to as the "Unforgivable Sin" .

One is then walking a very fine line when one claims "God Says - Alcohol should be forbidden"

And no - Jesus did not turn the water into Grape Juice at the wedding - and nor did they celebrate communion using grape juice.

 

Even the Bible says that God likes wine.

Judges 9:13 (NKJV) = But the vine said to them, ‘Should I cease my new wine, Which cheers both God and men, And go to sway over trees?’

 

Indeed it does - One of my favorite passages is the Law of the Tithe - in Numbers somewhere if memory serves. Says if the Temple is to far for the people to bring in their tithes - take 1/10th of the harvest - sell it - go out - by beer wine lamb beef - anything you like - and have a celebration giving thanks to God.

Sounds like a good party to me

 

You cannot speak for God Period.

 

People do it all the time - "God says this" "God says that" Folks putting words in God's mouth is a regular occurrence.

 

God can't speak for himself..

 

I'm amused when athiest, democrats are "experts" on Christianity.

 

Seems to me the only 'unforgiveable' sin is the fully informed decision to be seperate from God. Though I think this 'sin' is metaphorical. The way I see it, God eventually allows us to choose to be rid of Him if we want. Forcing someone who hates love and joy to endure God's presence for all eternity would be cruel indeed. As terrible as Hell is made to sound in The Bible, Heaven might be just as bad for those souls who have fully rejected what most of us embrace as 'bliss.'

Or perhaps, in the dynamic in which we Humans eventually create Heaven ourselves by advancing along the proper ('Godly' or 'Holy') path, Hell would would be what we build by advancing along the opposite ('Satanic' or 'Evil') path.

 

To me that would seem to be a sin of sorts against free will. The passage in question states that any sin can be forgiven - a Sin against the Father, a Sin against the Son - and then goes on to say that the only Sin that can not be forgiven is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

It is not clear what this passage means so we have to look in other places. Jesus describes something called the "awful horror/abomination of desolation" - this refers to religious cult of the Emperor "pontifex maximus - the Emperor Spoke for God - a Statue of this God - symbol of this cult and the Emperor's power being put into the Temple.

In one of the few passages where Jesus states directly how to get into heaven at the end of Matt 7 - he talks about those who speak falsely in the name of God.

That is my take on this passage.

I think this might be the purpose of the soul - to find the path of good.

 

It is too bad that Christians are so ignorant about their favorite religious fairy tale.

 

I am amused by the fact that all you can do is demonize the messenger when you can't handle the message.

What also amuses me is self proclaimed Christians who do not know the main teachings of Jesus.

What is lame is your inability to respond to the OP with anything other than Ad Hom fallacy.

 

I think you are trying to turn some church's extreme interpretations into something it is not. Drunkenness and not taking care of your children can lead to a long list of not only personal problems but societal ones as well. Not to mention the Biblical verses warning against these.

Blaspheme is to resist and deny the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict us of sin and bring each one of us to Jesus Christ.

 

The above is unintelligible gibberish.

"I think you are trying to turn some church's extreme interpretations into something it is not"

OK -- what is it that you think I am trying to turn these extremist "God Says - speaking for God" examples - into ? You accuse me of something but don't say what it is ... I have a few ideas .. but it could be many things. Gibberish.... some demonization reaction - without an arrow. ?

"Drunkenness and not taking care of your children can lead to a long list of not only personal problems but societal ones as well. Not to mention the Biblical verses warning against these"

Rather than make clear what your accusation is - you build a big strawman - inferring that I said something I did not say, infer, postulate.

This is about "speaking for God" not, - your opinion on how drinking to excess has societal issues.

The above is straight out of the fallacy farm.

What interpretation have I transformed into something it is not ?

My claim is that people from a certain segment of society - religious right fundamentalists - often put words in God's mouth. They do this often .. . whether or not they realize it.

This is the extreme Church interpretation you are referring to. How did I turn this into something it is not ?

"Blaspheme is to resist and deny the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict us of sin and bring each one of us to Jesus Christ."

After you finished your unintelligible demonization/accusation fallacious strawman rant ... you give your perspective on blasphamy. - but give no rational for why you think this is what Jesus is referring to when he talks about the Unforgivable Sin.

 

I did not mention you, but if it fits, lace that bad boy, on up.

 

If what fits ? I am not an atheist or a democrat. - but even if I was that would not make your statement I'm amused when athiest, democrats are "experts" on Christianity". any less nonsensical.

What would you like me to do ... tell you that this fallacious demonization gibberish is wonderful ?

From my viewpoint - and experience with you - there are numerous non theists on this board that know more about the teachings of Christ than you. So you might want to first take the log our of your own eye .. before trying to pick speck out of your atheist Brother's eye.

 

Again, it was a general statement, but it seems the shoe fits. I dont even bother arguing religion with atheist, what's the point? I know enough to know The Son Of GOD died for my sins. The Good Book tells us to shake the dust from our heels. If you refuse GOD and Christ, that's your business.

 

What is the point of you being here in a on line religious forum if you don't want to discuss and debate religion -unless the people with who you are debating agree with you.

For me - someone who is not an atheist - and who likes to debate religious ideas - only talking to people that agree with me is no fun. Sounds more like a circle jerk

A God Sacrificed himself to cleanse you of your sin. OK - Go ahead and sin all you like - as the slate will be wiped clean at the end of days.

 

And you say I have little understanding of Scriptures...

 

I was talking to God the other day, and She said that if She had written the Bible, she would have gotten it out to every person, in every language, in the blink of an eye. Hell, She said, even a middle aged housewife in Britain can get her book distributed to every country, in every language, in less than two months - and this Bible? Took whoever wrote the Bible 1,500 years to get the same coverage. Not very impressive for an omnipotent God who wants to get his word out.

Nope, She said. When I write my word, it will be on every table, in every language in the world in a blink of your eye.

 

If you had an understanding of scriptures - you would be aware of this theological debate - one that has been going on since before Luther decided to make it dogma for his new church.

So far your posts have consisted of nothing but name calling - false accusations - demonization of "the other" in some fashion - and the above is no different.

You are so afraid of the topic that you can't even state what you are accusing me of "You have little understanding" - Of What ? - in scripture.

What is it that I do not understand about Sola Fide doctrine ? "Salvation by Faith Alone" - ..

 

It's too bad that others don't want to be a straw man for you. They will persist in believing what they believe regardless of what you tell them they must believe.

 

There are reasons to warn against behaviors in your OP , but those preachers take it to the extreme and forbid them. It may not be the perfect interpretation of scripture, but it is different than totally denying and rejecting the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

I agree that there are reasons to warn against behaviors in the OP ... just don't claim you know God's opinion on these behaviors - as if you sat down with him for tea yesterday.

Is God not perfect ? -- if so - then why would you attributed an imperfect - and or "FALSE" interpretation of scripture to God ? Why are you so desperate to apologize for putting imperfect words and falsehoods into God's mouth ?

Do you like it when someone attributes something to you that you did not say and you do not think ? What makes you think that God likes it.
The fact of the matter is that you do not know for certain what God thinks - or even if God cares at all !
Perhaps Loki the Trickster God is in Charge ... you cant say for sure - and neither can I.

You can hope and pray all you like - but you will never know for sure until the dirt nap begins -- so why are you pretending otherwise ?

I remember one time when a close relative of mine had to try to resolve an issue in a Church that had gone Pentecostal. Lutheran was the parent denomination. Two people "speaking in tongues" - divining God s word directly via the Holy Spirit - came to opposite conclusions on some question relating to "What God Thinks" - could have been drinking, dancing, sex .... doesn't matter.

Obviously God can not give contradictory answers - so one of the two had to be wrong. The Church was split on opposite sides. My Relative - had to go mediate.

The Church was eventually kicked out of the Lutheran fold - Speaking on Tongues is considered heresy by most of Christianity - it is looked at as usurping the position of Jesus.

Jesus was "The Logos" - emissary between man and God - Jesus spoke the word of God directly through the Holy Spirit .. not Judy in aisle 2 during some rah rah service.

Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding - Jesus chose wine as the drink to mimic his blood in the most important of Christian ritual.

For Judy to usurp the position of Jesus - and say "God says you shouldn't drink alcohol" ... followed by changing the oldest and most sacred ritual in Christianity by substituting grape juice for wine on this basis .. is assuming a specific about Gods thoughts - something Judy simply does not know .. and in this case - something that conflicts with scripture.

 

Since god is imaginary anyone is qualified to speak for it!

 

I bet you think you said a mouthful, this is the second time you implied I have "demonized" you...the victim complex is a poor look. Read the Bible, it says the saved become born again, In Christ. The saved do not live the same as before accepting, Salvation. No one is "afraid" of the topic, except those who attempt to muddy, the waters.