Stephen Hawking’s hypocrisy, double standard and a whiff of racism

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Borat, May 13, 2013.

  1. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    "A person who never called for a boycott of Britain or the U.S. for starting a war that, in his opinion, is a “war crime,” but boycotts an Israeli conference that Palestinians will also be attending suffers from severe moral blindness. Not to apply the same standards to Britain and the U.S. that he applies to Israel is a decision that, at best, shows insensitivity to the rules of morality, which must be universal (see Kant and the categorical imperative). It is certainly stained with hypocrisy and has a whiff of racism as well."

     
  2. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    There are several problems with your position:

    1. All you have done is demonstrate that the manner of protest was different. In the case of the US and Britain and the Iraq war, he allegedly state that it was a war crime. Which is obviously immoral. So in his view, both the war in Iraq and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is immoral, so their is no hypocrisy. Here you are merely dissatisfied that he chose to protest Israel's immorality by a boycott of a conference. There is no inconsistency in the application of moral standards, because he has expressed that both are immoral.

    2. In the usual Israeli supporter fashion, you have created this requirement that Israel can only be criticized after everything else worthy of criticism has been criticized. To see the problem with this, if this standard was rigorously enforced, no one could criticize anything, because he would have to criticize everything else first.
     
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  3. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Lip service when it comes to his own country which according to him was and still is engaged in several illegal occupations and committed war crimes on his tax pound; acceptance of an award from another war criminal (in his mind) - the US...as opposed to a boycott of a scientific conference half the world away which is actually attended by Palestinians...but here he is holier than Sheikh Yassin I suppose...No inconsistency, no double standard? Are you for real or you think your cheap spin is fooling anyone? LOL

    Hmm, it's not a matter of first or second, at the end of the day Israel is the only country that gets demonized and delegitimized (not just criticized) while others get a pass....like in this case, he does not do sh*t about war crimes of his own country, he keeps obediently paying taxes, he does not boycott it in any way shape or form; he happily accepts an award from the US and Barak Obama despite his criticism of Gitmo and alleged America's war crimes...but hey, he needs to establish his Che Gevara credentials too, so he takes it out on Israel...What a convenient target, kind of similar to what the Jews have been for the last 2000 years. Ignore the log in your own eye, just keep bleating about a speck in the Jew's (oops I meant Israel's) eye and you will be a hero (in at least some circles).
     
  4. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    So what, any intelligent person would agree with him, it's the cause we hate, not the affect. If it weren't for the Zionists the world would be a much more peaceful place, yes not perfect, but certainly a lot better. But of course a fox doesn't smell his own stink.
     
  5. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    This thread is nit picking at it's highest level and proves there is no real argument.
     
  6. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    And you base it on the fact that it had been a peaceful place prior to 1948? LOL or perhaps the Syrian civil war that had killed an order of magnitude more Arabs than Israel ever did would not have taken place, or perhaps Saddam would not have captured Kuwait, or the Soviet Union would not have captured Afghanistan, OBL would not have attacked the US, Russian theater goers and schoolchildren in Beslan would not have been killed, buses in India would have been blown up....Get real, if anything Islamic terrorists are busy murdering women and children in Tel Aviv, if Israel did not exist they'd be murdering women and children in Australia and elsewhere.
     
  7. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    Syrian civil war, lol.

    More like Mossad/Saudi/ US/UK terrorism
     
  8. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    Boycotting Israel is fighting against racism and i don't need an Israeli newspaper to tell me what to think.
    Israel is not a race .

    You forgot France
     
  9. skeptic-f

    skeptic-f New Member

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    The OP is rather illogical. Just how do you boycott the country you live in? That's a tautology, isn't it?
     
  10. moon

    moon Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so because somebody decides to do something about one crime against humanity- the Israeli crime- then neoZionism's boot-lickers think they can assassinate his character because he didn't attack all crimes against humanity everywhere.
    Geez, Hawking has really stuck it to Israeli fascism, ain't he ? :mrgreen: They're distributing re-coloured Zion-pee.
     
  11. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    So when does Hawking say anything about any races? I must have missed that "whiff of racism"..

    What you think Hawking should stop paying his taxes to be morally consistent? Hawking hasn't started any boycott movements. He has joined one.

    So what movements should Hawking have joined in order to be consistent?

    And lastly, to say Hawking hasn't spoken out against UK/US war crimes as well would be really stupid, considering if he hadn't, then where did you get the soundbytes of his to prove he was against those things? The only reason you have those quotations about US and UK war crimes is because he PUBLICLY SPOKE OUT against them. Which is doing something.
     
  12. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Hmm, how about not buying British goods, not attending british scientific conferences, calling on others to boycott the UK, not buy british goods, not attend british conferences? How about not paying taxes in protest? I know, I know, it's inconvenient, unpopular, perhaps even dangerous....Boycotting Israel is certainly convenient, popular and perfectly safe...Who can blame him for hypocrisy and double standard.

    Oh and about 'illogical', we have a ton of Brits here bashing Israel all day long while their own country occupied Iraq, is still occupying Afghanistan and bombed the cr*p out of Lybia. We have a bunch of Scots here who want to partition the UK, yet they are all against the partition of palestine, they think they don't get enough self-determination within the United Kindom, they keep telling us that the Jews would have more than enough self-determination as a minority in a predominantly muslim state. Duh!
     
  13. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    How about committing a crime?
     
  14. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Well, you have a point here buddy, the whole movement is guilty of what the OP accuses Hawking of - hypocricy, double standard, inconsistency. The Brits are boycotting Israel while their own country destroyed half of Iraq and Lybia during the last 10 years and is still illegally occupying Afghanistan (never mind the Folkland Islands). Hawking is singled out because one would expect him to be smarter and wiser than a bunch of radical lunatics that the BDS movement is.
     
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your misunderstanding what these things are about. The war in Iraq was not supported by the British people. 2,000,000 went on protest about it. I've got a feeling that was the biggest protest ever.

    The situation regarding Israel is an on going problem. Here is the longest occupation/take over in the world. People have needed justice for a long time and the British Government is still supporting it!!!!! -just not all the British people.

    Israel has had her own way all the time. She has had all the power and she has been pushed to go further than she might at times by the Christian Zionists of the US.

    In order to get some justice it is necessary to make Israel understand that she may need to pay consequences for her actions. That is what BDS is about. Even there you have some people believing sanctions should just be against the West Bank settlements and other believe it should be against all of Israel.

    It is just part of an increasing attempt to create isolation around Israel so that she understands it is in her interest to give the Palestinians human, political and civil rights.

    There is absolutely no argument against any Israeli who is working for justice for the Palestinians. It is not to do with a person's country or race but their actions and ideas.
     
  16. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    Lacking the ability to dispute that he has expressed that the war in Iraq is immoral, you resort to smoke screens and distortion to create a double standard. All you have done here is to restate the lame accusation that labeling the Iraq war a "war crime" while at the same time boycotting an Israeli conference demonstrates a moral double standard. Lacking anything to back this accusation up, you resort to a slight of hand to make it appear to be fact, when in reality it is just smoke and mirrors. To accomplish this, after restating your lame accusation, you then ascend to the throne of the false pontiff, and proclaim that anyone who thinks that there is no double standard has been fooled. Thus, as in the story of emperor with no clothes, deceit becomes reality, as one dare not question the edict of the false pontiff, for fear of being labeled a fool. Fortunately, the truth does not work that way. Either prove that you can understand what is in his mind, or accept that his words stating that he believes that the war in Iraq is immoral.

    The problem with this is that although you admit that he has criticized the US, that only poor Israel is singled out and designated as illegitimate. Tell me, what is legitimate about a war crime? Since, according to you, he has labeled the Iraq war a war crime, and the US is responsible for the the Iraq war, by labeling the Iraq war as such he has automatically designated the US as engaging in illegitimate activity.

    PS - that stuff about the log while Israel has only a speck was rather humorous!!!!
     
  17. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    How is it not a double standard? British troops invaded 3 countries just in this century, they killed more people by far in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia that Israel has ever done in Palestine, the UK invasions of those countries were entirely unprovoked (the occupation of the West Bank on the other hand is a far more complicated matter as it was the consequence of the Arab war of annihilation that they lost and still refuse to make peace with Israel).

    Yet the UK does not even get a slap on the wrist from him, just lame useless lip service, while Israel (surrounded by overwhelming number of enemies dreaming of wiping it off the map) gets the full power of his indignation.

    Your position is like verbally reprimanding a white murderer in court and minutes later sentencing a black petty thief who stole food to 20 years in prison and claiming no double standard because both were 'punished'. Are you for real?
     
  18. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    The problem here is that you want to, in a subtle way, elevate Hawking to the position of a judge with the power to impose stern punishment. You would have us make the leap from a person expressing protest at government activity, to a judge with the power to impose substantial punishment. They are just not the same thing. If Hawking has stated that the Iraq war is a war crime, then those responsible for it are war criminals. War criminals can be punished in court. Therefore, by making that statement, Hawking has publicly implied that if the people responsible for the war can be identified, they should be investigated for war crimes. To be clear, he didn't say that explicitly, but that is the implication of that statement. As such, it is not a mere "slap on the wrist", as you have stated, rather it is a serious accusation.

    Furthermore, Israel wants to behave as if it has impunity. They want the world to believe that they can do as they please, and nothing can be done about it. Then it's supporters whine like little cry babies when Israel is criticized. If you don't want Israel to be criticized, direct your criticism at it's leaders who engage in cruel policies that inflict harsh suffering on innocent people.
     
  19. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    He chose to be a judge when he chose to pass a judgement on the UK, the US and Israel. It does not mean his judgement is correct in either case but he made it. In the case of his own country and the US he chose not to impose any punishment despite his harsh judgement, in Israel's case he chose to impose the sternest punishment available at his disposal (it's not a big deal but that was the best he can do). This is hypocrisy and double standard if there's ever been any.
     
  20. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All educated people know that the nazis survive in 'Israel', and that until their racist régime is overthrown Hitler still lives. Long live Stephen Hawkings for standing up to the racist pigs.
     
  21. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hitler must live in a lot of countries in the Middle East if that is your belief, eh?
     
  22. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    I notice that you chose to ignore that the designation of the Iraq war as a war crime was a rather serious allegation. Regardless, in your typical style of distortion, you insist on elevating Hawking to the position of a judge, although he is just a person that is protesting government activity that he feels is immoral. You even use the adjective "harsh" as if Hawking had cut off the electrical supply to the nation of Israel, as Israel has done to the Palestinians, thus imposing severe suffering on innocent people. You use the adjective "harsh", as if Hawking had ordered Apache helicopters to kill Ariel Sharon in his bed with Hellfire missiles, in the process harming innocent people, as Israel did with Yassin. No my friend, Hawking is not a judge with the power in to impose "harsh" punishment on others. The state of Israel however, does have such power, and as such, they should be criticized when they inflict cruel punishment that harms innocent people.
     
  23. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I expect that means something to you: to me, alas, it is Estonian. Nazis and zionism are, as you know, the twin sons of racist German nationalism. Genetically, both are nonsense, obviously, since the inhabitants of most of Europe came up from Spain and are - loosely - Basque, while the Palestinians are the descendants of whatever 'Folk' there may have been in Biblical Judah and the zionists a mixture of God-knows-what. The key point, however, is that the zionist fantatics are the last aggressive racists left, and they will have eventually to be stopped murdering, so the sooner the better.
     
  24. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Absolutely not, that's in fact the point of this thread. While Hawking made a bunch of serious allegations about a bunch of western countries, he chose to pick on one country only, not his own country which committed more crimes and more occupations and murdered more people on his tax pound, not the US where he got a nice award from Obama (war criminal in his mind)... he chose to pick on Israel. Well, it was a safe choice of course, I will grant him that. But that's why his position is hypocritical, inconsistent and based on an obvious and undeniable double standard.
     
  25. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    So the population of Israel remained static for 2,000 years while the populations of most of the world scattered?. Thats the opposite to what the bible states and also contradictory to studies of population movement. The palestinians are as likely to be turks and persians as europeans are basque.
     

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