Stop Blaming Climate Change For California’s Fires

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Josephwalker, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Well written article going into why California is burning and exposing the political AGW rhetoric as fraudulent.

    “Big Basin Redwoods State Park has burned through,” reported New York Magazine’s David Wallace-Wells, pointing to climate change as the cause.”

    “Heat from fire is required for the release and germination of redwood seeds, and to burn up the woody debris on the forest floor. The thick bark on old-growth redwood trees provides evidence of many past fires.

    And, indeed, video footage taken by two San Jose Mercury News reporters, who hiked into Big Basin after the fire, shows the vast majority of trees still standing. What was burned up was the visitor’s center and other park infrastructure.”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...forests-including-the-redwoods-need-them/amp/
     
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  2. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Without "climate change" however will democrats and their donors make money on their ridiculously inefficient solar businesses? Or make Kaliforna the new heart of third world Amerika where power is only for the privileged, not for everyone???
     
  3. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Mother Nature likes to clean house every now and then. However, she's a tad indiscriminate about what gets removed.

    Climate change really doesn't have anything to do with it.
     
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  4. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    The article makes a good point, and then craps all over it.

    He's talking about a climax ecology. Fire is part of the natural cycle.

    And we have suppressed fires, letting combustible material build up on the forest floor. Even worse, we have built in areas where horrific fire is guaranteed.

    So it's not an argument for AGW.

    But neither is it an argument against AGW, and using it that way is even dumber than what the NIMBYs are doing.
     
  5. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I don't think the article was meant to be an argument to discredit AGW in general but it destroyed the argument that climate change is responsible for Californians wild fires as AGW pushers have been claiming.
     
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  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    These "intelligent" folk need to first unambiguously define "climate change" in a manner that is not circular...

    They also need to describe precisely how an unquantifiable thing such as climate "changes"...
     
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  7. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    You have things backwards.

    If you wanted to join the adult discussion, you would have to jump through their hoops, not the other way round..
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  8. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Argument of the Stone Fallacy.

    My post still stands:
     
  9. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Logic failure in the article. "Redwood forests need fire" does not in any way lead to "Global warming is not increasing wildfires." Especially since most of the fires are not in redwood forests.

    Higher temperatures lead to more fires. Global warming causes higher temperatures.

    It's not about logging. There's far more beetle-killed timber out there than anyone can log. Standing big dead trees aren't the main fire fuel. The brush is, and the brush become more flammable with higher temperatures.
     
  10. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    False. Higher temperatures accelerate the hydrological cycle, increasing rainfall, which reduces fire hazards.
    No, global warming -- the recent (almost entirely natural) return to more normal Holocene temperatures following the coldest 500-year period in the last 10,000 years -- IS higher temperatures.
    But dryness is much more important, and that is caused by lack of rainfall. Global warming increases rainfall, which is why periods of warmer temperatures were called, "optimums" before that term was ruled politically incorrect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
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  11. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As usual, you're making a wild claim with zero evidence to back it up.

    In the fire zones, rainfall is seasonal. More rain in the spring means jack once the dry season arrives. Then vegeatation dries out, and then the higher temperatures make it more flammable.

    The evidence for that? Reality, which you now reject outright because it keeps contradicting the dogma of your political cult.
     
  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re establish herbivore population as kept the flammable brush material controlled

    Open the lands to grazing by ? ? goats, sheep, cattle, etc. native species, . . .


    No Herbivores.
    More Fires.
    Duh Uh



    The City of Laguna Beach, Ca. has found renting goats
    cheaper than illegal Mexicans to control fire hazards.



    Moi
    :oldman:





    STOP :flagcanada:
     
  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I sense You Support
    Moi's
    Static Earth beliefs.
    :woot:

    Conservation in counter to evolution.
    If as policy we support a failing species today
    what species as may be better selected for the environment
    is denied its' place on "our" Earth? via policy



    Moi :oldman:
    Stop Continental Drift. :rant:






    Canada.jpg






    Are YOU prepared for the "cool down"?

    Food
    Heat
    etc.
     
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  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    As usual, your claim is objectively false. There is ample evidence proving that warmer climate accelerates the hydrological cycle and increases precipitation: that is why periods of warm global climate were called, "optimums" before that term was ruled politically incorrect.
    False. Spring "rain" in those areas is often snow, which lingers and enables living plants to remain watered in the dry season.
    No, it is the dead vegetation "fuel" that people have preserved on the forest floor that dries out and becomes flammable, because unlike living trees, it does not draw moisture from the ground.

    The evidence for that? Reality, which you now reject outright because it keeps contradicting the dogma of your political cult.
     
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  15. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Define "global warming".

    Tell the SOTC to manage their forests and to crack down on arson...
     
  16. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Ample evidence" that you can't ever present. That would be because all the actual evidence says that warming causes the American west to get drier.

    As is always the case, reality is most unkind to your claims. Snowpack was below average. So much for your theory, thanks for playing.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/05/08/california-snowpack-fire-season/
     
  17. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    I've presented it many times, as you know. Here are some more, all from sources sympathetic to your anti-fossil-fuel scaremongering:

    https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/climate-101-why-does-climate-change-increase-rainfall

    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...2/global-warming-is-increasing-rainfall-rates

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_climate_change#Precipitation
    <sigh> Even if that were true (it's not), the American west is not the world. Natural cycles of climate change also cause climate zones to move: areas that were dry become wet and vice versa. But there is absolutely no doubt -- because it is a law of physics -- that warmer global climate increases total precipitation by accelerating evaporation.

    As is always the case, reality is most unkind to your claims.
    ROTFLMAO!!!! Why do you do this to yourself, hhmmmmmm? You know I am just going to prove you wrong again. So, you found one place where snowpack was below normal in one year. Too bad it was well above normal the previous year:

    https://ktla.com/news/local-news/ca...ber-level-in-4-years-thanks-to-recent-storms/

    And in fact was well above historical norms in two of the previous three years:

    https://cdec.water.ca.gov/reportapp/javareports?name=PLOT_SWC

    So much for your theory, thanks for playing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
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  18. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As is the case nearly every time, the links you present don't back up the claims you make. You just pretend they do.

    Where is your link that global warming will cause more rain year-round in California? You have none.

    All you had was links that global warming would increase general precipitation, which wasn't the issue being discussed.

    Care to try again, and actually address the topic instead of diverting?

    I think everyone will correctly take that evasion-by-retreating-to-generalities as your admission you were totally wrong about the western climate.

    Because I enjoty humiliating the brainwashed and dishonest with facts and data. I thought that was obvious.

    That "place" being the Sierras, the topic of discussion, and the year being the year under discussion. Darn me for discussing the topic being discussed. That's the pattern. I always go with speicifics, you always go with generalities and handwaving.

    And you do understand your snow melt claim makes no sense from a common sense standpoint, right? Snow melts and runs off. It doesn't linger through the year and water the plants.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    To start with Mamooth did not invent the co-relation between increased forest fires and climate change, scientists have. Many of you attack Mamooth when in fact you are denying what scientists have argued and just how many of you are scientists let alone foresters?

    The fact is you deny climate change and global warming of course you don't want to hear anything that might challenge your denial.

    By the way Mamooth never stated arson would not be responsible for certain bush or brush fires.

    For people to deny climate change and its correlation to weather patterns, draught, flooding, hurricanes, storms with lightening, hotter temperatures drying up lands is silly. No one denies improper forest management does not help matters either.

    Some of you deny the same reason anyone denies. You think if you close your eyes and ears to what is around you, poof it does not exist.

    Well Mamooth did not create the situation, human activities did. To pretend we humans have not contributed to it is pointless.

    Regards

    S. Moe Keebare

    p.s. I knew a woman just like Moi she was from another dimension, she could dance on water and wind-very nice- kept telling me to follow her but I kept smashing into the waves man-I did not have as the Beach Boys would say good vibrations-got too caught up in the blues man-that was a cryptic message for the Mois of the world and Keannu Reeves Moi's true soul mate

    https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/climate-change-and-wildfires

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/09/climate/nyt-climate-newsletter-california-wildfires.html

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200110101029.htm

    https://www.latimes.com/science/sci...nge-natural-disasters-20170907-htmlstory.html

    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2912/satellite-data-record-shows-climate-changes-impact-on-fires/

    https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/wildfires.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  20. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Of course they do, as readers can confirm for themselves.
    You are just makin' $#!+ up again.
    Where is my claim that it would? I made none. So you are just makin' $#!+ up again. As usual.
    It was by me.
    I already stipulated that natural cyclical climate change makes some areas drier, others wetter, and that which areas will be which is not yet predictable.
    I made no claim about the western climate, other than that natural cyclical climate change could make it drier or wetter.
    You mean yourself?
    No. When refuted on the general case you retreat to specifics.
    It is well known that it does. It is merely not known to you.
    Slowly, and slower at higher altitudes.
    It does linger and water the plants as it melts through the spring and summer. That is the point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  21. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The topic here is the American west. Which is getting warmer and drier, as predicted.

    Have you managed to convince anyone else that warmer and drier weather _doesn't_ lead to more fires?

    I don't think you'll have much luck gaining new converts. Anyone willing to renounce common sense on the orders of a political cult is already on your side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  22. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Because that is the prediction that gets one published and funded. Not because there was any actual basis for it.
    Warmer global climate is wetter global climate.
    OTC: in the Internet age, anyone can find accurate information themselves, so your hysterical anti-fossil-fuel suicide cult is bleeding support among those who can think for themselves almost as fast as Mormonism, Islam, and Jehovah's Witnesses.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  23. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    The OP merely states fact. California is a tinder box of fuel due to many decades of fire suppression and mismanagement to thin forest.
     
  24. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    That's definitely part of it.

    But it's also definitely just one part of it.
     
  25. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    California is a poor barometer of climate. It's historically in a geographical location that is edge desert and very minor swings in weather effect it drastically.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020

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