"Stop Hiding Behind the Second Amendment"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Phoebe Bump, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    The militia is well regulated. We agree. Again, what am I missing? What does this have to do with keeping and bearing arms?
     
  2. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Nor to the second which you consistently willfully ignore.

    The people is not limited to the militia.
     
  3. cplstiffy

    cplstiffy New Member

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    I'll argue this. You say I don't need a semi-automatic rifle to protect myself, property, family, and my rights. Can you prove that I don't? Just because you say it or think it doesn't mean it is true. Some instances maybe a shotgun or a 6 round revolver may not be the best weapon for said instances. Do you really NEED to be able to voice your opinion? Do you NEED to be able to speak out against the government? Do we NEED the freedom of the press? Do we NEED the freedom to assemble? Is it in the best interest of the country for a criminal who's been proven guilty to have the right to punishment that isn't cruel and unusual? Nobody argues that, and why? I'm willing to bet that most people who think we should have a gun ban are pro choice too, well choose not to own one. It doesn't matter what the framers thought weapons might be in the future. Do you really think that they thought muskets would be around 200 years later? I doubt it.

    For the sake of argument lets say there was a gun ban. Who's going to come and take them? Your military? Doubt it. They would be disarming family, friends, and hell themselves too. The police? No, for the same reasons. You don't see illegal drugs on store shelves do you? I sure don't and they're common in todays society. We can't stop people and drugs from coming across the border so how could we stop weapons? If you don't want people to have guns remember this. My utilization of the 2nd Amendment along with millions of other Americans guarantees that your 1st Amendment to say stupid (*)(*)(*)(*) stays.
     
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Only well regulated militia may not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
     
  5. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    The MILITIA is regulated. That has nothing to do with keeping and bearing arms. It is obvious to me that our founders deemed it necessary to be able to call up and regulate a militia for defense purposes but that isn't the point of the 2nd part. The point of the 2nd part was to secure each person's right to keep and bear arms so that when the militia was called up, they would already be armed. It was also recognized that each person, apart from being in a militia, needed arms for personal defense.
     
  6. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The People are the Militia; Well regulated Militia are necessary to the security of a free State. There is no provision for Individuals who are considered specifically unconnected with Militia service, well regulated.

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    Yes, it does in our Second Amendment but not Posse Comitatus.
     
  7. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did you see what I said? If it means nothing, show me where the First Amendment says Separation of Church and State.
     
  8. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    No, only the people may not be infringed when keeping and bearing arms. The militia is being regulated for the purpose of organizing so that the defense of the nation is made more efficient. That has NOTHING to do with keeping and bearing arms outside of being called up for militia duty.
     
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    apples and oranges; freedom of religion means homosexuals are also free to worship as they please.
     
  10. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Yes in fact the people does not mean the militia it means individual citizens and that fact has been proven beyond question you are beaten
     
  11. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The People are the Militia. Well regulated Militia are necessary to the security of a free State, It really is that simple, except to gun lovers with no intellectual integrity but potentially some capital profit motive.

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    dude, do you always resort to fallacies?

    The People are the Militia: 10USC311.
     
  12. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apples and oranges my ass. You know damn well it's the same. You like most Liberals, you will never admit your wrong.
     
  13. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The same as what? freedom of religion means homosexuals are also free to worship as they please.
     
  14. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You want to take the second amendment word for word and say it doesn't mean people can have arms except for the defense of the country. Well the First doesn't say a word about separation of church and state, but that's what Liberals want to make it out to be. I said nothing about homosexuals.
     
  15. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    This is silly. What is being regulated is the organization of the militia, not the keeping and bearing of arms. It doesn't matter how many times you say "the people are the militia". The 2nd part of the Amendment says "the people" not "a well regulated militia". The right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed <<<< this literally means each person regardless of whether they are in the militia or not has a right to keep and bear Arms. The 1st part merely justifies the 2nd part because it's far easier to call up an ALREADY Armed person for militia duty when the defense of the nation calls for it.
     
  16. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    You all' may not fully realize the difference between the standards and word definitions of hundreds of years ago compared to the current definitions and realities. Back in the day the militia was not a polished military unit like today's national guard or its equivalent. The milita was more like an armed or should be armed neighborhood watch. It was a bunch of your pals and neighbors that banded together for the force in number concept

    . Militia members consisted mostly of ferociously patriotic and dedicated men that loved their country. Many of them were without uniform some without firearms or proper boots. Sadly when the militia was fist considered many members were illiterate and unlearned most other areas or army life. For example many only knew 'drill' as a tool for making holes in wood.

    What I am trying to say is the militia that George Mason was referencing all able bodied men (and women) when he said this ;"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." So the whole people would in today terms be everyone in the hood, hopefully most were gun owners. [/COLOR] Mason was not speaking about the national guard, no he didn't mean the army reserve. He certainly was not suggesting the milita was the regular army!!! IT IS OBVIOUS TO WHO HE WAS REFERENCING!

    So, I suggest those members that continually attempt to make the militia of old something it wasn't to stop hiding behind its wrongful definitions and fraudulent comparisons, to kidnap a saying! heh heh! . It's time to stop beating milita, who is that dead dog my friend. The members (YOU know who you are!) should admit they are wrong and like (non?) thinking types have been wrong for a hundred years ! The SCOTUS (supreme court of the USA) says enough about the 2nd adm to be in agreement with we firearm lovers, yum, yum baby bring your pretty scope over here, lol. Peace, ya all' ~

    reva



    .
     
  17. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    wrong about what? freedom of religion means homosexuals are also free to worship as they please.

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    our Second Amendment does clearly state what is necessary to the security of a free State.

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    Only if you appeal to ignorance of the law. 10USC311 applies as does the first clause of our Second Article of Amendment.

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    There is no appeal to ignorance of 10USC311 or the first clause of our Second Article of Amendment.
     
  18. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your dumb Liberal dominated US Supreme Court even screwed up in the meaning of the First Amendment. It doesn't mean separation at all. There isn't one word in it that even says separation.

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    The first amendment mean anyone is free to practice or not practice religion. Get off the homo crap.
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Separation of Church and State means no State established Religion, like there used be under the Articles of Confederation.
     
  20. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where does it say separation danielpalos?
     
  21. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It says Congress shall make no law in establishing religion. That means Congress can not make a law to make a state religion as it was in England and why so many of our forefathers left England.
     
  22. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    In the hearsay and soothsay, like gun lovers like to resort to:

    "Separation of church and state" is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Either way, the "separation" phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States.--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

     
  23. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    10 U.S. Code 311 contains no language that even implies that the govt may regulate the possession of Arms by anyone. Why reference it?
     
  24. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now you want to take the first to mean separation on hearsay instead of what it says. But not the second. You lost, admit it

    John Adams, co author of the second amendment

    "&#8220;To suppose arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense, or by partial orders of towns, counties, or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government.&#8221; &#8211; A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, Chapter Third: Marchamont Nedham, Errors of Government and Rules of Policy, 1787; The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States: with a Life of the Author, Notes and Illustrations, by his Grandson Charles Francis Adams, (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856) 10 volumes, Volume 6
     
  25. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    oops I posted the unedited version. So please disregard the errors or ask me if you have questions ....

    rev
     

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