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Strike Down GOP Gerrymandering

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by LafayetteBis, Nov 12, 2018.

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  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From here (the Daily Kos): Strike Down GOP Gerrymandering

    Excerpt:
    Well worth the read if you are concerned about having, finally, a Real Democracy in America. That is, one without the voting manipulations of either the Electoral College (that has elected Five Presidents who lost the popular-vote) or Gerrymandering of the popular-vote.

    A True Democracy elects the will of the voting public purely and simply without manipulations of who, where, why or how votes are counted.

    And, frankly, not only for voting, the US needs an at-birth Identity Card for all its citizens that contains a DNA-identification. This is the mainstay of any European Democracy and, so far, nobody or no party in the EU has "taken over complete control" of the government as was once feared under Communism.

    In truth, the EU is the ONLY truly Social Democracy, the definition of which is this:
    *Definition = justice/fairness/equitability in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    LafayetteBis, Nov 12, 2018
    #1
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  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your link is behind a paywall.

    I can't read it.
     
    Spooky, Nov 12, 2018
    #2
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Strike Down GOP Gerrymandering"

    And leave Democrat gerrymandering in place?

    And again the Constitution guarantees we will never be a Democracy.

    Are you a US citizen?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    Bluesguy, Nov 12, 2018
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  4. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    That's as far as you need to read in the OP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    ChoppedLiver, Nov 12, 2018
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  5. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Excellent article by Daily Kos.

    Once the Republican gerrymandering is ended, we will have real democracy at work. Patriotic Dems at the helm means a better USA and it is good to see such actions taking place.
     
    Mr_Truth, Nov 12, 2018
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  6. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    In my opinion, all gerrymandering is harmful unfair and counter to the way our country should be operating, regardless of who's doing it. Its high time that we implement a solid policy which fixes the issue once and for all. We either need to agree to a standard automate-able algorithm for drawing districts, or set up clearly defined standards by which traditionally drawn districts can be measured for fairness, or forgo districts all-together and move to a Single Transferable Vote system. Agreed??

    Ranked Vote: How To Reform Redistricting And End Political Gerrymandering

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
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  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LafayetteBis, Nov 13, 2018
    #7
  8. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Spooky, Nov 13, 2018
    #8
  9. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And consider the alt-left Progressive DailyKos doesn't mention Dem gerrymandering.

    Consider California. New Democratic Party gerrymandering has resulted in California sending 43 New Democratic Party members/votes to the House. Yet, no hardcore Progressive "news" site talks about that.

    How many House seats does the North Carolina have in total? 13.

    Fake propaganda BS from Progressive sites like DailyKos should always be ignored.
     
    ocean515, Nov 13, 2018
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  10. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

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    DailyKos.png
    Not keen on poorly written propaganda pieces that preach for the converted to lap up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
    Liberty Monkey, Nov 13, 2018
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  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ouupps!

    But, you see, I thought I was responding to a response and when I clicked on the link it was your post that came up ....

    I can't imagine why - but after a lifetime in Computing, I am still not the least bit surprised ...
     
    LafayetteBis, Nov 13, 2018
    #11
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Propaganda, me arse.

    Opinion is the proper word, and if you don't like it find another. But "propaganda" it is not.

    I suggest you see what pops up when you do a search on these two words "Republican Propaganda", (with the quotation marks).

    Wow ... !
     
    LafayetteBis, Nov 13, 2018
    #12
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No I have a Senator to represent my entire state I want a local rep in the House.
     
    Bluesguy, Nov 13, 2018
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  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    ?? Wait... then are you saying that you don't think gerrymandering is a problem that should be fixed?
    ...or are you just saying you don't think the fix should be Single Transferable Vote since that gets rid of local districts?
    If you're just saying you don't think the fix should be Single Transferable Vote,...then what is your opinion on
    using an algorithm to draw the districts, or establishing clear and universal standards for how fair districts should be drawn?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
    #14
  15. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    I think States need to decide how their districts are drawn. I don't think there is a universal formula that will work for all States.
     
    TheGreatSatan, Nov 13, 2018
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  16. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    So you're OK with states continuing the practice of gerrymandering then??
    Why exactly do you think a set of fairness standards, or an algorithm wouldn't work for every state???

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
    #16
  17. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    Because some States are like Alaska and other States are like Rhode Island. Each state is a laboratory. Each state should decide how their district lines are drawn. Some can use courts some can use algorithms. I believe what you are advocating is like Gerry mandering the entire country.
     
    TheGreatSatan, Nov 13, 2018
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  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    And... ?

    What exactly is leading you to believe that would be an issue??

    Explain to me why something like the Square-Rectangle Method or the Ring Method wouldn't be compatible with Rhode Island???
    Explain to me how a Proportionality Ratio Standard couldn't apply in a place like Alaska which only has a single district????

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
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  19. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    It just seems that you complain about Gerry mandering on one hand while trying to devise a scheme to gerrymander the entire country with 1 system with the other.

    Why do you want to "take the power" away from the States to decide how their districts are drawn?
     
    TheGreatSatan, Nov 13, 2018
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  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    See what I bolded? See my answer?
    Algorithm's are interesting but who writes the algorithm and what is weighed and by how much.
    Clear UNIVERSAL standard as in a federal statute? Unconstitutional.
     
    Bluesguy, Nov 13, 2018
    #20
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It would require a constitutional amendment so the point is moot.
     
    Bluesguy, Nov 13, 2018
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  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    If you believe that establishing systems to ensure that congressional elections are fair and that districts are not drawn to favor one party or group over another is akin to gerrymandering, then I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term gerrymandering.

    gerrymander

    1 : to divide or arrange (a territorial unit) into election districts to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the voting strength of the opposition in as few districts as possible...

    2 : to divide or arrange (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group...    ​

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gerrymander#h2

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
    #22
  23. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    If that's how some States want to do things let them do it that way. In some States it's used to keep communities that are in a geographical area unified as a single voice rather then being split. Forcing the nation on to a single system could have unintended consequences
     
    TheGreatSatan, Nov 13, 2018
    #23
  24. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    We decide together on which algorithm we view as the fairest.
    And like I was saying in that other thread, after that it doesn't
    matter who writes the program to automate that algorithm,
    as anyone would then be able to verify that the program
    was written correctly and yielded the correct results.

    This is a major advantage of using algorithms over leaving it to people to directly draw the maps.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
    #24
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not saying it needs to be the federal government that does this.
    But that said, there is nothing at all in the constitution which precludes congress from passing anti-gerrymandering laws.
    Apportionment sections of the constitution merely specify how many congressional seats each state must be afforded.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Nov 13, 2018
    #25
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