Study Confirms Climate Models are Getting Future Warming Projections Right

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by MrTLegal, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    I know, that is why it's actually funny to see you argue a topic you have little to no understanding of. You have a report in front of you and you don't understand the first thing about Geology. But you act as if this the THE gospel of all climate change and it must be 100% correct because NASA and a report used to get funding, tells you so.

    Maybe start looking at something called "Strata" and plate tectonics for your first clues. They are important ones.
     
  2. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which plants and animals are being harmed due to global warming ???

    Tree rings are a terrible way to measure temperature. Ask any Dendrologist.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  3. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Data. I’ve this previously.
     
  4. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Well, Stalactices and Sediment Deposits are just examples of "Strata," but you still haven't provided an example of a Geological Data Source which can provide data on the timescale of decades.

    But listen, you are not going to convince me to disallow or ignore the conclusions from NASA, NOAA, and every other recognized group of national or international group of scientists - all of whom have official policy positions in support of the basic tenets of AGW.

    It is real, it is a threat to you, but it is more of a threat to your children and their children.
     
  5. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Still not an answer.
     
  6. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    You are not going to convince me because your data and argument are shallow and incomplete. Just because someone has an "official position" does not mean they are correct in their assessment. Al Gore said the Polar Bears would be extinct by now and he was VP and a Climate Change/Global Warming "expert". Supposedly he had all of the data and science behind him to make such outrageous claims and we were all supposed to nod our heads and agree with him.

    Turns out he was wrong and is essentially a fraud getting rich off the backs who buy his nonsense. His fear-mongering has cost taxpayers billions. People like Al Gore, this world can do without. Just another fraud getting rich by selling fear.

    Plastic in the oceans is a real threat to everyone and to our future generations. Pollution and unsanitary environments are a real threat to us and future generations. There are many, many things that are going to be a danger to this world but the climate changing isn't something you can really do anything about and you have no idea what is even causing it. You just have guesses based on incomplete data and fear mongering from an agency that wants more funding.

    Yes it is. Just because YOU don't like the answer or understand it doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. The data you are using is incomplete and it doesn't cover a long enough timeline or sample.

    Is 3 days of weather in Utah during June a good barometer for determining weather patterns across the great plains for the last 10 years?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  7. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Data is not an answer ???
     
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  8. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    You stated, "To claim that global warming which started at the end of the little ice age in the 1800’s is melting the glaciers in Iceland is ridiculous."

    You're conflating the post-Little Ice Age (LIA) re-warming period with the more recent acceleration of global glacial melting. The warming period post-LIA was due to recognized natural factors and is not connected to the acceleration of glacial retreat over the past ~60 years. Post-LIA conditions/factors started around ~1850 and ended ~1950, so they can't be attributed to the accelerated rate of global warming & glacial melting which followed (and which are continuing & accelerating today). The following graph even shows the dramatic increase of hydrocarbon use in the U.S. beginning around the 1940's:

    [​IMG]

    But if you still don't believe me, then take it from the scientist who authored a paper about the LIA after being asked whether global warming is simply due to post-LIA recovery/rewarming:

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Atmospheric temperature change is only a small part of the equation and doesn't reveal the true (or at least immediate) breadth & effects of the amount of heat we've put into the ecosphere. The oceans are heat sponges & ice/snow at the higher latitudes & elevations are earth's air conditioners. Read the following:

    Your snowfall argument (along with your other arguments) was debunked earlier, so no need to keep rehashing it. But even if reduced snowfall was the ONLY factor (which it isn't), how would that weaken the AGW argument?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Aside from the regions where the glacier meets ocean water, the melt-water doesn't begin on the underside but at the surface. Water carves out grooves wherever it flows, including through rocks/mountains, but very quickly through ice. (A simple experiment will show you how flowing water easily & quickly carves holes & grooves through ice.) The grooves increase in depth the longer the water flows through it so where they eventually end up at the rock surface below the glacier. This is what creates the rivers of flowing melt-water that begin at the surface and end up at the bottom (and which also seeps into the ground). Scientists use dye to determine where these flows end up downstream because they quickly descend into the glacier and disappear.



    And if that's not good enough for you then look at the carved grooves from the rivers of melting water on the glacial surface:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Yes...you know better than Iceland's Minister of Fisheries and all its fishermen because you visited the country.

    Regarding CO2-induced ocean acidification, please read the following to educate yourself:

     
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  9. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    What makes them so special?
     
  10. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. If we have to have AGW to get photographs like that, it’s worth it. Those are beautiful.
     
  11. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    I agree...quite strikingly beautiful. Alas, it's the calm before the storm.
     
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  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @557
    @JCS
    Just under that melting ice is the interaction of the
    North American tectonic plate with the Eurasian tectonic plate
    that splits Iceland too.

    Got Geothermal changes as in Antarctica ?



    Moi :oldman:
    Stop Man Made Continental Drift






    Canada-3.png
     
  13. NMNeil

    NMNeil Well-Known Member

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    Because it doesn't bring the workers out of poverty, they are still living and working in appalling conditions, it just enriches others.
    Makes you wonder why wealthy nations are still giving India aid money.
     
  14. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The above is an example of the ability to find anything you want to “prove” anything you postulate on the internet complete with photographs.
     
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  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Earning a wage keeps people in poverty ???
     
  16. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    I had actually wondered about this too (though I didn't know the fault ran through Iceland) and glad you brought it up because it made me take a look. It may explain some sub-surface melt in limited regions where it would affect movement of glaciers & ice sheets...but not the rapid surface melt & retreat that's been observed worldwide.

    Geothermal activity seems to have its greatest effect on the movement of glaciers, not so much on their overall melting. Movement may accelerate downslope, but this would not explain glacial retreat which moves upslope. Geothermal heat would also not explain surface melt which has over several decades been accelerating.

    Glacial melt in some regions may also trigger or increase the likelihood of earthquakes by destabilizing the plates:

     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  17. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    You want more pics? They are eye candy afterall.
     
  18. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Melt water on the top of glaciers happens every summer during the 20 hour days. That’s been going on for centuries. And no, this melt water is not responsible for glacier movement which occurs whether or not surface melt water is present.

    How many scientific papers were published on ocean “acidification” (which is an intellectually dishonest term as I’m sure you understand) before 2004 ?? How many after ??? Who paid for these thousands of papers ??? Why do those papers ignore the buffering chemistry of the oceans ??? What is the daily variation of ocean water pH ???
     
  19. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Iceland has a major volcanic eruption every 4 years. Some of these occur under glaciers which melt and the resulting flows of water, ice, and rock cause major damage to anything in its path. Many bridges in Iceland are one lane because it is less expensive to rebuild them.
     
  20. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of course they melt MORE during the summer period. Common sense! But that melt has been accelerating over several decades.

    It's funny. You acknowledge global warming...yet you continue denying that global warming is causing glaciers to melt/retreat faster!?!?

    Glaciers are always on the move...yes...but any melting on the underside may increase the rate of movement via a lubricating effect. Didn't you understand that simple idea?

    You tell me. You set 'em up and, if false, I'll debunk 'em.
     
  21. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    OK
     
  22. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Global warming in the short term is not accelerating glacier melting. Some are receding and some continue to flow. That has to do with snowfall.

    Glaciers move because pressure melts ice on the underside of glaciers. That’s how it works.

    So you have no interest in those basic questions ???
     
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  23. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

    Like I said, you tell me. If you have a problem with any of the scientific materials then tell me what's incorrect about any of it. So far every claim you've made contradicting the evidence for climate change has been debunked, and you continue to repeat the same claims (like snowfall). Hell, you even believe you know more than Iceland's science experts & fishermen...and at the start of our discussion you didn't even believe that glaciers could MELT! Obviously there's no way to get you to accept any facts...even if photos, graphs & documents are are provided.

    So for now...I'm done. I need to move on.
     
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  24. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    I strongly endorse the "move on" plan. After all, there is little point trying to explain something or convince someone of something that they believe is impossible to ever be explained.
     
  25. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You are special and dont you ever doubt it.
     

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