Study creating commotion: mRNA COVID vaccines bad for circulatory system

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Peter the Roman, Nov 26, 2021.

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  1. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

    Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

    Our group has been using the PLUS Cardiac Test (GD Biosciences, Inc, Irvine, CA) a clinically validated measurement of multiple protein biomarkers which generates a score predicting the 5 yr risk (percentage chance) of a new Acute Coronary Syndrome (ACS).
    ...
    We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.


    Cardiologist talking about that study, and more, on GBNews:



    Efforts have been made on the net discrediting the author, Steven R. Gundry, because he claims lectins cause inflammation and sells diet books, but this apparently has no relation with the study.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gundry
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
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  2. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    If true, this is going to be big. In about 4 years we will really know.
     
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  3. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    His career is over, tote the "completely safe" narrative or pay the professional price....4 years into this experiment will tell the tale, particularly since biannual "boosters" are looking to become the "new narrative".
     
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  4. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is true, and those of us paying attention for the last 10 months already know it.

    It's great to see a formal study prove it, but it's old news. That's why Dr. Ryan Cole calls them clot shots. Such clotting has killed a few friends of mine.
     
  5. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'd be suspicious of a newly registered member who starts by posting anti-vaxxer material.

    There are numerous other studies showing much smaller incidence. Here's one:

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737

    This one makes the point that myocarditis from the virus is worse:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2781600

    And the point is made by these two press articles:

    https://www.newscientist.com/articl...on-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

    https://www.tctmd.com/news/studies-highlight-rarity-myocarditis-mrna-covid-19-vaccines

    This one makes the point that it's not only rare, but also mild:

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...ted-myocarditis-rare-usually-mild-studies-say

    ------------

    So, don't go believing in the first anti-vaxxer who comes your way. Often it's junk science and misinformation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  6. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    Instead of posting pro-vaccines material and labeling me as "anti-vaxxer" (it may be true, but for sure you are a pro-vaxxer), I think you'd do a better labor telling us what is wrong with the information I provided:

    The study is not true?
    The video is not true?
     
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  7. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pro-vaccines "materials"??? I posted scientific studies too.

    Science has plenty of studies that show one thing, while others show a different and opposite thing, like I've just demonstrated. As a medical scientist with 41 years of experience, I've learned decades ago that we don't go by just one study. Explore the studies and articles I gave you and their references, for a more balanced opinion. Yes, I'm a pro-vaxxer... I do vaccines for a living, for four decades. I've mentioned extensively here the issue of myocarditis with mRNA vaccines, the issue of thrombotic thrombocytopenic syndromes with the adenovirus-vector vaccines, issues with transverse myelitis, Guillain-Barre, and even anticipated future problems such as the concept of original antigenic sin with repeated boosters and adjusted boosters for new variants. I never ignored the problems or tried to hide them. But yes, these vaccines' benefits FAR outweigh the risks, even more clearly, in the realm of myocarditis. While the vaccines cause a few cases in 100,000 doses, the virus itself causes, in certain studies, up to 45.8% of myocarditis, almost 1 in 2.

    What do you prefer? A handful in 100,000? Or 1 in 2? If you walk away from the vaccine fearing myocarditis, what you'll MUCH more likely get, is myocarditis from the virus itself. Worse, more severe. Not to forget all the other organ damages you can get from the live virus, and you do not get from the vaccine.

    Nothing inherently wrong with your study; just, ONE study doesn't contain the whole truth, when MANY others contradict it.

    We're used to this. This is why the highest strength of evidence, in evidence-based medicine, is a meta-analysis that gathers dozens, even hundreds of studies.

    If you get ONE study saying "isoniazid doesn't work for tuberculosis" and 99 studies saying "isoniazid works for tuberculosis", pray tell, do you think that isoniazid works for tuberculosis, or not?

    Anti-vaxxers love it, when some study sheds a negative light on vaccines. The inconvenient truth they don't want to acknowledge, is the huge number of other studies saying the opposite, and the fact that the virus itself is much more dangerous and causes much more severe and more frequent problems.

    So, if your study is not wrong, it lacks perspective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  8. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    Where did I express an opinion in this thread?

    I merely provided a study and a video, and, by the way, you have not discredit any of them, beyond saying "ONE study doesn't contain the whole truth, when MANY others contradict it", and a similar thing is affirmed in the video by that cardiologist ("more studies are needed", he says).

    What do you intend, threads like this not be opened? why?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A more balanced opinion than the one provided by the author you quoted. I wasn't talking about YOUR opinion.
    "More studies are needed" - that's what we ALWAYS say. I've said the same EVERY TIME in the HUNDREDS of studies that I've authored myself.
    I said, the study you quoted is not inherently wrong, but it may be overestimating the problem, given others that point to a much smaller incidence, and to mild and transient cases.

    Threads like this can be opened, of course. But if you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. As much as threads like this can be opened, they can also be countered by other valid facts, like I demonstrated.

    But frankly, I'm sick and tired of anti-vaxxers making a huge deal of ONE study, and being unfamiliar with how science works.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  10. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK, @Peter the Roman - OMG, I just explored your posting history. Viruses don't exist... PCR tests are useless... and so on and so forth.
    Look fellow, I have ZERO interest in dialoguing with someone like you. I recommend to you a nice subforum called Conspiracy Theories. We do have one here on PF. Maybe you'll find your calling, there.
    As far as I'm concerned, I won't be reading and responding to such nonsense. Have a long and happy life. Get protected; this virus is very real and very dangerous, and yes, get tested; the PCR tests can detect it. Take care.
    Over and out forever.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  11. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't count on it.
    What we'll see much more often, is heart damage from the virus itself.
     
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  12. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who says the vaccines are completely safe? We acknowledge the issues. It's just that they are very rare, and much rarer than the damage caused by the virus itself.
    Nothing in medical care is completely safe. Not even aspirin (can cause bleeding). Not even Tylenol (can cause liver toxicity).
    No serious scientist of medical doctor has ever said that these vaccines are 100% safe. They are not (although they are close to that, statistically speaking). In a small percentage of cases, they have even caused fatal reactions. But the virus kills much more often, and damages organs much more often. In medicine, what is important is the balance between risks and benefits. The benefits of these vaccines far outweigh the risks.
     
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  13. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    Because I simply opened a thread exposing one study, then I am an "anti-vaxxer making a huge deal of ONE study, and being unfamiliar with how science works".

    :applause:
     
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  14. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    Because I simply opened a thread exposing A study ... I meant to say

    I consider completely licit to expose any study in this forum section, if it has relation with the pandemic, and that does not convert into "anti-vaxxer" or "pro-vaxxer" to the opener, much less "making a huge deal of ONE study, and being unfamiliar with how science works".
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  15. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    As a proof I am not anti-vaxxer nor pro-vaxxer, I put here too a post in another forum questioning the study. I don't know if it is right, but it's the only objection I've seen until now:

    The study used patients in a preventative cardiology practice which means some of the patients already had cardiac issues. The pre-injection PULS score was drawn too long before the covid injection imo (I'm not a doctor but a researcher) and imo should have been drawn the day of covid injection. The abstract in general appears weak on correlation. And, always a question in my mind when reading any research is who funded it because that sometimes influences the outcome of the research.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    It has been our very very sad experience that has led us to conclude this

    Now if you are so familiar it’s science - do you understand what the term “systematic review of the literature” means?
     
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  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Nice bit of critical analysis there underscoring why medicine rarely relies on only one study
     
  18. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    Ad hominem and lies, even though it seems you have not read my threads and posts, only the titles.

    Nowhere I said "viruses don't exist", the title of that thread is "do viruses exist?", and precisely I opened that thread in the conspiracy section. I'm only convinced HIV virus does not exist, because a deep investigation on the subject.

    Nowhere I definitely said PCR tests are useless, I said "COVID19 PCR Tests SEEM to be scientifically meaningless" and was posted in the conspiracy section too, so you can save your silly recommendations.

    I have doubts and I ask questions, and I will continue exposing them here when necessary, despite some alleged "scientists" want people like me to shut up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
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  19. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    The exact words the cardiologist says in the video are: "in medicine, in good science we never rely on one study, we need to replicate these findings", that is, more studies SIMILAR to that one are needed.

    Other studies showing that, for example (the study presented by @CenterField) myocarditis has a low incidence between vaccinated people do not necessarily contradict the study I presented. There are quite more problems someone can have with his/her circulatory system and heart, besides myocarditis, like the ACS (Acute Coronary Syndrome) mentioned in the study.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
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  20. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    More important, that study of myocarditis (post #5, first link) shows patients who certainly had that ailment according to certain criteria, while the study opening this thread shows certain biomarkers that predict a future ailment (ACS). You could not have myocarditis or ACS today, but being in high risk of having one of them in the future. So the studies are completely different, thing that any "scientist" should have realized.

    I put here a link that explains in more detail the study opening this thread:

    https://newsconcerns.com/mrna-vaccines-put-you-at-risk-for-acute-coronary-syndrome/
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  21. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member

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    In my view, it is time to a accept the fact the we are stuck with Corona virus and it’s iterations until it burns itself out.
    Sure. Take the vaccine de jure that was effective six months ago, or build a bunker and stave to death in isolation, or hope for the best. Since nothing else is working, why not?
    The human race has survived worse.
    Speaking of worse we are heading toward a government vs citizen showdown thanks to the polarization of the media as well as politicization of our alphabet health agencies, not to mention Mr. “I Am Science” Fauci’s Spartacus moment.
    It is time to suck it up and get back to being an American. You government is not encouraging it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  22. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is impressive how people are fearful of giving to the muscle cells of their arms instructions to temporarily (for a couple of days) make a few copies of the spike protein (and then both the templates - the mRNA strains - and the spike proteins get eliminated from the body), 1 of 29 viral proteins the SARS-CoV-2 possesses, but don't seem to think that it is a big deal to get all 29 proteins in billions and billions of copies when the virus invades every nook and corner of their body (and those 29 include the spike protein, in much higher numbers than the ones made by the vaccine). So whatever the vaccines can do that might be detrimental (in a few, rare cases) the virus itself can do much more, and much more frequently. People lost all sense of proportion when they avoid the vaccine for fear of the spike protein. The virus itself makes billions and billions of spike proteins when it invades.
     
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  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they create an immune response.... who would have thought.... almost like the body was learning to fight a virus
     
  24. Peter the Roman

    Peter the Roman Newly Registered

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    This theory of the terrifying SARS-CoV-2 virus (or any other virus in general) may be correct only if the virus is proven to exist, a thing that some dissident scientists, like German biologist Stefan Lanka, deny. The viral-like particles showed in some official studies may be the consequence, not the cause, of the illness, so those particles would actually be "exosomes", without the capacity of replicate. The cause of the illness may have another nature, it may actually have a toxic nature, not viral, or there may be another explanation for the illness and the current pandemic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  25. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Makes Moi, MD, ret.
    glader to have chosen
    J & J !​
    @Moi621 sez
    :rant: and more :rant:

    BTW How Many Times A Year
    are ready to answer the call to be "vaccinated".
    Remember your flu shot too ;)

    Moi :oldman:




    canada_pirate.png
     

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