Study of the NIST Collapse of World Trade Center 7 Theory

Discussion in '9/11' started by Bob0627, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I don't really have a general theory either, I just know the official narrative is a lie and a PROVEN lie. I do hold some beliefs though.

    1. I believe the 3 towers were controlled demolished. Planes/damage/fire or just fire could not possibly have caused all 3 buildings to be totally destroyed in the manner seen on video. So just applying a bit of logic, there is only one well known and proven possible way that something like that could have occurred and that is controlled demolition. One does not need to know how that was accomplished to know a well planned and executed controlled demolition could have done the job and that fire is not known or has ever been proven to be able to do the same job as a controlled demolition.

    2. I believe there was a stand down on 9/11. This is supported by the fact that there were numerous warnings and the history shows 3 out 4 targets were perfectly hit with not a single legitimate response from the US government. This is beyond unprecedented, it makes no sense at all. The excuses given are for gullible idiots to swallow not for intelligent people.
     
  2. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How many conspirators would it have taken to pull these perfect attacks off? The best argument against a conspiracy involves the vast number of people required to do something like this. And then for no leaks to have happened since 911. Of course the people involved with the manhattan project never leaked either.
     
  3. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I have no way of answering that question but it has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted for the same reason that no one needs to know that in order to know the official narrative is a lie.

    You mean against a government conspiracy. 9/11 was a conspiracy no matter what else anyone believes about it. Regardless, that's not much of argument against because it doesn't change the facts or the fact that the official narrative is a proven lie.

    There are 9/11 whistleblowers. Again, this has nothing to do with the fact that the official narrative is a proven lie.

    That sends me back to topic of this thread which is what we are supposed to be discussing.

    People such as Dr. Leon Hulsey are proving that the official narrative, via incontrovertible science, the kind that will be peer reviewed and published as settled science, is a LIE. Whether that will have an impact or not and what kind of impact remains to be seen. Proving the official narrative is a lie by using universally accepted methodology is a requisite first step toward getting a legitimate investigation off the ground .... if that's even possible. So this is critical.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was just curious as to how many one would think it would take. IMO, not that many. A loyal band of true believing neocons and you find them in the CIA, the military, and gov't. For remember, the coup against FDR was a go, until they invited the wrong General to join. He promptly busted their elite arses out to congress, ending the coup, with not a single rich elite or other co conspirator getting into trouble. Over a planned take down, a coup against the existing president!! And that was in the 30s!! When something of this nature, a conspiracy, was unthinkable. Is it unthinkable today? Hell no.

    I agree with you on your last paragraph Science can bring much light on this conspiracy, but you have the entire gov't against it as well as people who believe the official lie. So, IMO, the science, the evidence contrary to the official story, is moot. No matter how much evidence is presented. So all that it will do is to reassure the people who were critical thinkers, like us, that they were right in believing the official story was a lie.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  5. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Things like that are a distraction. Putting the cart before the horse. Without a legitimate investigation it's sheer speculation.

    I disagree that it's moot. Unlike the above, science fact is not speculation, it's often used in the legal system to resolve cases. It has far reaching implications. It's not just for a select few people, it's for everyone, whether they want to accept it or not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
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  6. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of questions, how many here live in N.Y.C. ?
    Ever worked in N.Y.C. ?.
    How many here were at the W.T.C. durring the attacks ?
    How many here ever heard of N.Y.C. Steam ?
    How many here are familiar with the Subway ventilation access tunnels venting out subway electric substations ?

    I always marvel at the thump I feel when a heavy Municipal Bus goes by, think of the amount of Air displaced by so much tonnage of material traveling downwards.

    Also, the air supply from the elevator shafts aided the burning of so much jet fuel and resulting high temperature.

    The ground around Towers 1 & 2 and building 7, were not solid ground and crisscrossed with many defunct tunnels and pour conduits that only the original builders would remember.

    Remember, the circumstances around the destruction of the W.T.C. are unique and had never occurred anywhere before and likely will never occur again, remember that before applying any standard metrics to a particularly unique scenario.

    Also, the application process for Demolition permits in New York City is very complicated and requires signatures, especially buildings of that magnitude and importance, 1 Police Plaza, the Mayor's office, and City council etc....
    Even A.T.F. must authorize explosives purchases.

    So there goes any possibility of anonymous demolitions theories......
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  7. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Never lived in NYC but NJ is my home state and I was there when 9/11 occurred. Like many others in NJ we lost friends and neighbors if not direct relatives. Our local first responders were involved and the minister from the town next door was part of the clean up crew. Some of them even suffered from PTSD they were that close to the disaster. Personally I was working to ensure that we did not lose our overseas internet access since AT&T informed us that their transatlantic cables were in the impacted area. I recall driving up the Turnpike on Thanksgiving and seeing the smoke still rising from the rubble. Even that memory is still a moving experience.

    There was no conspiracy involved because something of that magnitude would be impossible to cover up.
     
  8. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    And what does any of the above have to do with the topic of this thread? Hulsey's study is strictly about the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC7, which is the topic of this particular thread. You haven't posted one thing with respect to this topic, you have posted not one correlation. So far every one of your posts is an attempt to introduce red herrings into specific discussions. I've questioned your posts and you've chosen to ignore my questions. Stick to the topic or stay out of my threads. You are free to start your own thread/discussion with respect to the above quoted post.
     
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    See prior post in response to DoctorWho, your post shares the same characteristics.
     
  10. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I know this is isn't what you're talking about but steering back to the topic at hand:

    If Dr. Hulsey's conclusions are peer reviewed and endorsed by relevant experts, it becomes settled science fact. If that happens then those at NIST were indeed likely involved in a conspiracy to scientifically defraud via deception and should be charged under the RICO Act, among other federal statutes that deal with criminal conspiracies.

    And apparently that would be true, it was impossible to cover up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  11. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thing is, even IF this was a conspiracy that involved more than the people who we are told by our govt as being the only perps, there is no way in hell our gov't would ever admit it, or go after americans, politicians, who were involved, in order to get PNAC implemented as what drives our foreign policy. The truth about 911, if there is a truth apart from the official story will never be known. For no one involved would have left a paper trail. All the gov't would have to do is to find scientists who would refute the scientific studies which evidenced what happened was impossible given the planes used. And you know the gov't can find such people to back them up. It is a hopeless cause.

    So we may as well accept the official story and just forget about it. People can drive themselves crazy trying to discover what would never be admitted.
     
  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    No one needs an admission or a confession to expose a conspiracy. Most criminals never admit their crimes, it doesn't mean they can never be exposed.

    There is no IF about it, the official story is a lie just by the admission of the 9/11 Commission. Whether the full truth about 9/11 will ever be known or not doesn't change the fact that we were LIED to. And the fact that we were lied to means by default that there a truth apart from the official story.

    How do you know that? There is a long trail of documented evidence proving that we were LIED to. Those involved in the fake "investigations" are involved via complicity and that paper trail is the official 9/11 publications. There is a mountain of hard and circumstantial corroborating evidence (if that's what you mean by a "paper trail") that proves the official 9/11 story is a LIE.

    When experts agree that the official scientific studies resulted in false conclusions via scientific fraud, there is nothing the US government can do to change those facts. It also exposes the fact that the US government has found scientists willing to perpetrate scientific fraud and would make any future scientific study commissioned by the US government suspect from the start.

    Who the **** is "we"? You mean YOU. I for one will never accept the official story as anything but a fairy tale used to pursue an agenda of genocide and will never forget it as long as I'm alive. I'm sure I'm far from the only one. You're advocating cowardice and subservience to a gang of criminals. That may be your personal goal, it certainly isn't mine or what you want to characterize as "we".

    I can't speak for anyone else, but it isn't driving me "crazy" to expose the official 9/11 narrative as a criminal fraud. I try to uncover as much detail as I can find and post it so anyone can read it and come up with their own personal conclusion. You want to sweep it under the rug and suggest others do the same. IMO that's pretty repulsive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  13. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was just informing you of the actual reality involved, so don't shoot the messenger. They can be exposed, but who will believe it? You and a few thousand others, but nothing changes. Most of america will never believe it regardless of what is exposed for all the gov't has to do is to use the CIA term, conspiracy theory, and that takes care of that!

    This is your reality sir, it is all of our reality. This effort to expose the truth is like an ant climbing up and elephant's leg screaming...I am gonna rape you! The power of the US Gov't is just too great. If they do not want you to know the truth, you will never know it. Especially something like 911. And if you think you know it, it will go nowhere. MSM would not allow it.

    But hey, if you want to waste your time, it is your time after all.
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The reality is you are stating your personal opinion, not fact. Therefore you are not a messenger.

    Many already do.

    Why are you deliberately understating the facts? Changes depend on The People growing a pair and doing something about it. Silence or the advocation of silence is complicity and subjugation, not to mention cowardice, unless one has an agenda of course.

    Most already do. I read the comments following 9/11 articles and videos. It's undeniable that the overwhelming majority know what's going on.

    No it's YOUR reality.

    Thanks for your personal suggestion I, or anyone else should walk away. Sorry but I'll take your advice and file it where it belongs.

    Meanwhile this thread is about Dr. Leroy Hulsey's study about NIST, ARUP and Weidlinger that contradicts all 3 that will be published for peer review, hopefully soon. It's strictly scientific (that is, NOT conspiracy theory), follows all the rules of scientific protocol and is open to anyone. None of those characteristics were/are exhibited by NIST in its 9/11 "investigation", as well documented.

    So you're still off topic.
     
  15. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok, I am old, and you are hopefully much younger and will be around for a long time. This may give you enough time to see who is right here you or I. I will be right, and you will be wrong, in regards to what your time and the time of others will yield. Nothing will change is my point. The gov't will never admit it. And the truth of what happened will not matter to any but a few people like you .You and that group will change nothing. It might if you lived in a republic. But you do not. You live in an oligarchy, with a national security state apparatus that will insure you and others like you will never be a threat to the oligarchy. You sir can take that to the bank .As you will perhaps find out long after I am gone. I know this stuff. I am certain, and it is no opinion involved. It is fact. If you trust in the american people to make things right, dream on. It is impossible now at this point.
     
  16. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I have grandchildren in college and heart disease so I seriously doubt it.

    I'm not participating in any contest to see who's right between you and I. I frankly don't give a **** about your personal choice, I don't share it and never will.

    If it matters to one person, it matters. It's irrelevant the actual number it matters to. It also matters what happened because the official story is a LIE.

    Nothing changes if no one does nothing, that is guaranteed.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

    But before one does something, one must be educated. Silence provides no education, other than to educate that one must be silent.

    The Soviet Union was not a republic (it still isn't) but it changed nonetheless despite its appearance of invincibility.

    You are not telling me anything I don't know and I have no trust in American people to effect change. That does not mean I'm going to shut up and bend over, unlike you and what you advocate others do.

    Again, you are off topic. Start your own thread explaining how everyone should just dance to the beat of criminals, this one is not it.
     
  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then join the club old man. Me too, heart disease at age 75, with grandkids in college. So we won't be around to see how it turns out.

    Look, I am just so pessimistic when it comes to this subject. I don't buy the 911 commission any more than I would be conned by a con man in a parking lot. I don't buy that it happened just like the official story tells us. And the truth, whatever it is will always be tin foil hattery, to much of the population. For they are so easy to fool. You know that, surely. We will be at the same place as the JFK murder 50 years from now. Many people will not believe oswald was the only one involved as they do today, but the truth will never come out on that or 911. That is all I am really trying to say. There may be people that come out, like we saw with the JFK murders, claiming this or that, that they were involved, and one will believe them for their will be others that will come out and totally cloud up the issue. The CIA did not invent the term conspiracy theory for sh*ts and giggles, for there was a reason for that. To cloud up future conspiracies which they would be involved in. There are far too many coincidences when it comes to 911, that would make a rational brain pause, and then know something is badly wrong with the official story.
     
  18. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I can't disagree with anything you posted but your suggestion to do nothing and remain silent, especially if one knows one has been lied to about such an event as 9/11 is beyond unreasonable. IMO the best method to use to expose the lies is the scientific approach. Science doesn't lie, that's why it's used in criminal investigations. And that's why this thread exists, because there is a scientific approach underway that can irrefutably expose the lies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  19. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What can an old sick man do? I am speaking for myself. Write my representatives in DC? Email them? Call them. Not a spring chicken anymore. Once I got out of the military, as the war still raged in Nam, I was so against that war, that I joined in the anti war demonstrations with long haired hippees. But I was young and full of energy, and still feeling being grateful from having been able to come back to the world. I could speak out against what I saw was wrong and useless. But I am no longer that man. So what can I really do that would make a difference?

    Using science as the weapon to speak truth to power requires that they actually listen. And they won't listen. MSM will diss the science, their experts will call it pseudo science, and drown the science out. That is how this world operates in this oligarchy. MSM will use non stop propaganda to make the science a conspiracy theory. And the science seen in academia will not wade into it. They will not back these scientists who have been looking into it for years. All it takes is for one of those experts to be a little nutty, a bit odd, and that will be used to discredit the entire group. We have seen such things before.

    If you are waiting on a group of scientists, not of academia, to speak and it actually carry any weight, you may not have enough years left to see that. And you cannot get academia to be involved this is. They won't touch it!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Educate as many as possible. That's what I try to do. The US government isn't going to investigate itself, we've seen how well that works.

    I demonstrated against the Vietnam War in DC along with at least 100,000 others and wouldn't hesitate to do it today. But you see these anti-war demonstrations are just not happening anymore.

    See above, if you educate just one person, you've made a difference.

    Untrue. It's not about them "listening", they're not interested, it's about The People listening.

    While that's true, it's only an excuse to do nothing. And that is unacceptable.

    It's already being done, that's why this thread exists. Whether they listen or not they can't make the scientific facts go away. And the facts must be exposed.
     
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  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  22. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    And the Project Summary:

    Project Summary


    This is a study of the collapse of the 47-story World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC7) at 5:20 P.M. on September 11, 2001. This building was a steel-frame office building located north of Vesey Street in the World Trade Center Complex in New York City’s Financial District. The World Trade Center Complex opened on April 4, 1973, and, at the time of completion, the featured Twin Towers (WTC 1 and WTC 2) were the tallest buildings in the world. WTC 7 was later completed in 1987. Other buildings in the complex included the Marriott World Trade Center (3 WTC), 4 WTC, 5 WTC, and 6 WTC.

    Consider that on the morning of September 11, 2001, two jets were flown into WTC 1 and WTC 2 in a coordinated act of terrorism. At 8:46 A.M. Eastern Time, American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the north face of WTC 1. At 9:03 A.M., United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into the south face of WTC 2. Soon after, these two buildings collapsed, WTC 2 at 9:59 A.M. and WTC 1 at 10:28 A.M. These attacks killed 2,753 people. It is reported that falling debris produced structural damage to the remaining buildings in the World Trade Center Complex. It is also reported that falling debris from the collapse of WTC 1 caused damage to WTC 7 and that fires ignited by debris from WTC 1 burned for nearly 7 hours in the building. At 5:20 P.M., this 47-story building also collapsed.

    The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) opened an investigation into the collapses of WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7 in August 2002. NIST released its final report on WTC 7 in 2008, finding that the fires that were ignited by falling debris from WTC 1 caused the collapse of WTC 7. Independent researchers, however, have assembled evidence that has raised profound questions regarding the notion that WTC 7 collapsed because of fire.

    Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth provided funding to the University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF) to evaluate if fire caused the collapse of WTC 7 and to examine what may have occurred at 5:20 P.M. on September 11, 2001. Therefore, the UAF research team evaluated the structural response due to the reported fire. A structural framing virtual model of WTC 7 was used to conduct the study. The reported failure was simulated using three-dimensional finite element computer models of the building. The research team studied the building’s response using two finite element programs, ABAQUS and SAP2000 version 18. At the micro level, three types of evaluations were performed. In plan-view, the research team evaluated: 1) the planar response of the structural elements to the fire(s) using wire elements; 2) the building’s response using the NIST’s approach with solid elements; and 3) the validity of NIST’s findings using solid elements. At the macro-level, progressive collapse, i.e., the structural system’s response to local failures, is being studied using SAP2000 with wire elements, as well as with ABAQUS, and it is near completion. The findings thus far are that fire did not bring down this building. Building failure simulations show that, to match observation, the entire inner core of this building failed nearly simultaneously.

    http://ine.uaf.edu/projects/wtc7/
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some of us are not willing to accept the crazy story told by officialdom.

    I know we can do nothing about it, but I feel better knowing I've been deceived by officialdom. Sometimes it's nice to know the truth for its own sake.
     
  24. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What does not help the 911 Truthers, and I do not see that term as derogatory, is the fact that there are debunkers who got time in the MSM early on to debunk the Truthers.

    One thing that is self evident though is that once the official story is released, backed up by the 911 Commission, most americans will accept that story. The ones that will not are called tin foil hat wearers. This is our reality, regardless of the truth about 911.

    For myself, I simply do not know what the truth is, but there are too many coincidences and incoherence in the official story, and some of the things about the 911 Commission smells a bit shady. The redacted pages Bush Jr. had held back doesn't help the official story at all, once they were finally released, blacked out to hide information.

    It looks highly suspect to me, and skeptical of the official story. I would just need hard evidence of a conspiracy. A leak from a credible conspirator or backup people would get the ball rolling.
     
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  25. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Not true, we're already doing something about it.
     

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