The reason that I differed and objected has to do with implied usage of the words burden and responsibility, although both can be interchangeably used. When the word responsibility is used, it is commonly used with a positive inference and likewise, the common use of the word burden has a negative inference such as: You have shown great responsibility in your diligence. The burden of carrying this load is tiresome. It is all about the usage and the implied inference that accompanies the usage.
Well when someone becomes 'responsible' for children they didn't want, that 'responsibility' often becomes a 'burden.' Children should be a positive thing, not a negative. But negative is precisely what they become when they are merely a 'result' or 'outcome' or 'risk' of irresponsible sex. I am normally all for personal responsibility and accepting/being expected to acccept the consequences of ones actions, but in THIS case theres multiple people involved- children, who do not deserve to be expected to shoulder the burden of the consequences of their parents actions by being forced to be raised by people who dont want or love them.
I think "responsible" is not as accurate a term as is "accountable" for what you are conveying on this topic. You want to put a shiny surface on holding teenagers accountable. More specifically, many pregnancies are accidental - a result that occurred DESPITE responsible behavior. And, you really don't care whether there was responsibility - you care that they be held accountable. As we all know, every method of prophylaxis has a failure rate, and proposing that fact as a reason for humans to never have sex outside the actual quest for progeny is just denial of the human condition. And, that is especially true for teenagers who are denied full and explicit information by their parents or school, are facing first time experiences, etc.
If you believe the source material, even abstinence failed at least once. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal.
Paladin, Whether or not you accept the following comment/reply is completely up to you. You have supported abstinence with your response. If people are so uninterested in accepting the consequences of their behavior, sooner or later they will when an unwanted child is birthed from their behavior. If they choose to neglect the child, they will still subsequently bear the burden of their decisions. Even if they give the child up for adoption, often the child will seek its natural birth parents, even if the adoptive parents are excellent in raising the child, he or she will still want to find their actual roots. This happens more times than not. When this takes place, questions will follow and the ugly truth will eventually come to the surface pertaining to why the child was given up for adoption. If abortion is chosen as an option, than it is an unnecessary procedure and an even greater burden will come up the mother because of her decision to terminate the pregnancy. This is an aspect that is not mention by the pro-abortion crowd; the psychological impact that abortion has on the women who undertake such a procedure. There are consequences to all of our actions and experiences. I am not anti-abortion out of a sense of some righteous indignation, I am anti-abortion because it is an action that is irreversible and has consequences. The following is a story from a woman who received an abortion: Source: http://www.abortionchangesyou.com/stories
Your whole post screams, "Women must be controlled for their own sake because they are too stupid and childlike to take care of themselves."" And it's asinine to think that ONE woman's "story" should or could influence any other woman or her rights. There is an aspect that is not mentioned by the Anti-Woman/Anti-Rights crowd: the psychological impact of pregnancy and child birth on women and the devastation of having their rights as humans taken away....something that doesn't seem to bother you... Giving birth "" is an action that is irreversible and has consequences."" TOO!
Im no fan of abortion. I only support it because of its import to the precedence of body automony and our freedom of choice. Personally, I think the choice to abort is a horrible one. But if we dont have the choice to choose poorly, then we have no choice. My purpose in subsidizing adoption is to increase the ease of the alternative to abortion that doesnt force more innocent children into abusive situations. Children are not the proper or even an acceptible tool with which to try and enforce sexual responsibility and/or accountability. Its cruel to the children, and it damages society by increasing the mental illness that results from an abusive upbringing, and actually creates more irresponsible adults.
I am not trying to force anyone to practice abstinence, in all actuality; a person is not and cannot be forced to do something against their will. All I am doing to attempting to get people to think through the actions they take before deciding to carry them out. There are too many decisions that put into action before thinking them through. I am of the mind that those “in charge” of legislating, and enacting rules for everyone else, seek any opportunity to gain more control over people so they can restrict behaviors through their pens (see totalitarianism) so I take the position to head them off at the pass. As to freedom of choice, do we really have freedom of choice, when there are always consequences to be considered? If an unwanted child is produced, the consequence is physical abuse, neglect, or adoption which can all lead to other horrifying choices in the child’s life, including premature death, drug abuse, alcoholism, a life of crime, you name it. The child may even turn out to be functional to some extent, but the child will still carry the mental and/or physical wounds for the rest of his or her life. In the light of this, was the initial irresponsibility worth sacrificing another person’s life? I think about things such as this because there are many people who are alive today, who are carrying around bruises that will affect them somewhere and at some time in their life. I would not be a Man if I did not think of such things, IMO. When I walk among people, I wonder at times if they experienced traumatic incidences.
. That's where abortion comes in and eliminates all that horrible suffering which you seem to wish upon unwanted children. Ya, one really traumatic experience is being forced to gestate a kid you don't want.....
You are trying to force people to be more responsible by forcing them to raise children. "If people are so uninterested in accepting the consequences of their behavior, sooner or later they will when an unwanted child is birthed from their behavior." This equates to using children as a responsibility enforcement tool. That is backwards. Children should be raised by people who are already responsible. Find another way to make people responsible. Lets help them find more suitable parents for their unwanted children so they can learn responsibility doing something that isnt going to permanantly damage a human in the process
Paladin I am not forcing anyone to do anything, being that it is impossible to force people to do anything. What I was explaining was the outcome of being irresponsibility. If people choose not to be responsible, that is clearly on them. The flipside of their refusal is one of the usual outcomes that I have mentioned. Life is not an endless party, with party favors, toys and always smiling faces. At some point, people are going to have to become adults and see life for what it has always been; a series of events and outcomes that dependent upon our reactions to the events and outcomes. It is not my fault that people who claim they are adults but behave like drunken teenagers at a party. Paladin, as far as me using children as tools to enforce responsibility which I am not doing, what do you call it when government steps in and removes children from homes because of the parents’ refusal to be responsible adults? As I said, I am only offering a solution to government intervention. As it is well known, it is too late for offering solutions to anyone. The reactions that I have received for just mentioning being responsible adults shows me that people want government to interfere with their lives, so long as it does not happen to them. This has been the practice and mentality of the overwhelming majority of people in this country, and it is not going to stop. As to helping people find responsible parents for their unwanted mistakes, I am not the person to ask that of because as I have stated before, those children are not my responsibility. If the parents want to throw them away, so be it. I cannot be held accountable for other people’s actions, although, this too has and is the ongoing theme of existence in yesterdays’, today’s and tomorrow’s society. Scapegoating is the recurring theme. Others are held responsible for the sins of others; an obvious example of this is the reactions to President Trump. He gets the blame that should have been placed on the previous presidents, but as usual, people like to blame and throw responsibility upon others in the immediate. As I have said, people can do whatever they please, when they please, but they better be acceptant of the consequences.
A country you're free to leave if it revolts you so much. NO, people who want women to have the right to decide what to do with their pregnancy are the ones who DO NOT want government interference... WHO is holding others responsible???........I mean besides the Trump excusers..... Whether a woman has a kid and gives it up or has an abortion WHO is she "holding responsible"???? Ya, ya, I'm aware you can't address any of my posts...those facty things are scary.....
No, its not vilifying people for wanting to have sex, its vilifying people for being irresponsible. The issue is also over people turning their back on their actions and passing along the negative consequences to other people (society). If a person has sex, then they - not society - should be held accountable for the result of their activity.
And what is the failure rate? https://youngwomenshealth.org/2009/11/03/success-and-failure-rates-of-contraceptives/ The failure rate of an IUD is <1% over one year of typical use (not perfect use, but typical error prone use). Female hormonal implant is also <1% over one year of typical use. Combined the failure rate is <0.01%, or less than 1 in 10,000 women will get pregnant over the course of 1 year. (if you don't like those, there are other methods with similar rates) If the man uses a condom, 18% of women will get pregnant over 1 year of typical use. If the woman uses 2 methods, and the man uses a condom, then over 1 year of typical use (not perfect use) then <1.8 women out of 100,000 will get pregnant. For the US population, that's <1,000 unwanted pregnancies a year. If people (mainly women) were being responsible, then we would not have an abortion or adoption problem. So don't claim that many pregnancies are "accidental", or that people are being responsible. If you want sex but not to get pregnant, that is easy to do - if you are responsible. And therefore the issue is accountability.
I don't even slightly agree with your math. First of all, expecting perfect use of TWO methods of abortion is a ridiculously unrealistic bar for being "responsible", especially given our sex education approach today. along with the difficulties involved in teenagers having easy access to multiple methods (or even ONE method). Where is it that teens get that kind of training? We're not talking about college graduates - we're talking about the general population of young people - pretending for the moment that anyone not "young" must be an expert in prophylaxis. If you notice that the number of sexually active and unmarried Americans is in the 10s of millions and that typical use of the pill has nearly a 9% failure rate, you know our population is trying to be responsible. More importantly, this "responsible" thing is a ridiculous premise as a foundation for laws against abortion. You do NOT have any way of determining whether an individual failed in being "responsible". They could have been raped. It could be a case of incest. It could be they "used two methods" and it still failed. It could be nobody got to them to educate them on the details of methodologies for having sex responsibly or failed to allow the teenager easy access to prophylaxis. Again - this vindictive direction has nothing to do with "responsible".
RIGHT! So if they feel an abortion is the answer they should be free to have one!!!! You: ""If a person has sex, then they - not society - should be held accountable for the result of their activity"" But YOU seem to want the child to suffer for that....barbaric...
Except that this is America and NO ONE is obligated to use birth control.. ...NO one should be forced to take drugs and have potentially dangerous devices put in their bodies to suit YOU...How ridiculous to think so. NOBODY even has to claim it was an "accident" they need NO REASON AT ALL... YUP, accountability...if you get pregnant and don't want to be, get an abortion....it IS legal and a woman's right
WillReadmore, I disagree with your assessment and comment about someone not willing to bear the responsibility of another child as being vindictive. To me, such an absurd notion has contributed to too many people being irresponsible and either having children that they know they are ill prepared to raise children who will in turn be either non-functional or a burden on the larger society in the long haul. I could be wrong but I think that many of those who pose as being compassionate, are really not compassionate at all. Such people seek to eliminate completion for others, or worse yet, seek the demise of others and what better manner of accomplishing this goal than by posing as a compassionate and good advisor while seeking the complete ruin of others in the end. Causing people to be responsible is actually the greatest gift that you can give to another. Such action will more than likely negate the negative possibilities in said person’s life, if he or she follows through using the advice that was given to them.
I think you are asking that they be "held accountable". You are hoping that by holding them accountable, more people will act responsibly. And, the focus on accountability really is on women. This use of the law becomes vindictive when we have left those approaching mensis unprepared and when we ignore the fact that these rules apply to victims of rape and incest. Suggesting these laws against women are our "greatest gift" is just plain offensive to me. As for "advice", the direction today is to reduce the advice available.
You are making completely erroneous assumptions as to why I posted what I did. I do not have a savior complex. My posts only highlight glaring contradictions when it comes to the pro-abortion side. This is why I posted options and alternatives to abortion. Moreover, people like to point fingers when the reality is personal behaviors cause a majority, if not all of the problems that are faced in life. The problem as I see it pertains to and revolves around many thinking that life is one giant party and use being a teenager, a cop, doing poorly in school, a tummy-ache, you name it as the reason for them facing difficulties, when the really is that we have control over our own destinies.
You did not read the post. You did not read the link. The rates of failure are not for perfect use, they are rates for "typical use" which is defined as "When contraception is not used every time, or it’s not used according to instructions every time". The rates are based on real world experience, not a perfect world. The data I used shows real world typical use of the "pill" results in 9% of women getting pregnant over 1 year - the same number you posted. That adds credence to my post. The pill is not nearly as effective as other more modern contraceptives which are not only more effective and healthier, but are easier to use (as in an annual visit to the MD as opposed to taking a pill every day). Go back and read my previous post, this time with an open mind.
YOU brought up the issues of responsibility and accountability. And we are not talking about rape, to bring up rape when the issue is responsible behavior and accountability for ones actions is a desperate attempt at dodging the issue. Of course I can make determinations about the responsible behavior of a population. As I previously posted, it is very possible to practically eliminate the number of unwanted pregnancies if readily available contraception is used - read my previous post. The fact that there is such a huge number of unwanted pregnancy proves these easily accessible methods are not being used, and people are being irresponsible. Its not rocket science. You just don't like the result.
I read your post before I responded to you. I found it to roughly match data gathered by other organizations. Nothing in it counters anything I said. If you have a problem with what I posted, you should identify that.
