Test Pilot Admits the F-35 Can’t Dogfight New stealth fighter is dead meat in an a

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Destroyer of illusions, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    [​IMG]

    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875

    Spending on ineffective weapons seem to have become in the United States whether a tradition, whether legalized option of theft the budget. Even American journalists from the newspaper Los Angeles Times accused the agency of the US Missile Defense in financing useless research. And they had already spent 10 billion dollars - 2.2 billion dollars had been spent in the development of a prototype of a floating radar system SBX, 5,3 Bln. - For the invention of the laser gun for the Boeing-747. Both inventions were deemed completely useless for military purposes. But the Pentagon that does not seem to confuse, unpromising projects do not become less. Money, as true noticed the Roman emperor Vespasian, does not smell. Perhaps the development of so-called "stinking bomb" - and this "super weapon" Pentagon also spent a lot of money and resources - must once again prove the correctness of this postulate.

    (One of the stories of Japanese anime "Memories of the Future" was called "stinking bomb. The most deadly weapons. "
    However, the Pentagon has borrowed from the Japanese cartoon idea. And military decided to realize of the present arms. By order of the US military as part of the creation of non-lethal weapons, American chemists and biologists have begun to develop a stink bomb - «stinking bombs."
    To find a Universal nasty smell, a team of researchers from the research center of Monell Chemical Senses Center several years analyzed thousands of odors. Chemist George Preti for money the Pentagon with enthusiastically sniff odors of sweaty armpits and rotten fish entrails and researcher Pamela Dalton specialized in the study of smells vomiting, rotting garbage and excrement.
    In General - Any stink for your money.

    About the finals of these studies you, I think, guessed.)

    What do you think about this? This banal theft of budget money? Or - idiots in leaders of the nation?
     
  2. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a huge waste of cash. My friend is a "Wild Weasel" pilot in an F-16 and he says he would take his Falcon over the "piece of trash" lightning any day.
     
  3. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Well-Known Member

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    The only reason the F35 would dog fight is if facing a hostile Stealth fighter, if its facing an F16 or Mig 29 the F35 would take them out before these would even register anything was amiss.
     
  4. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Stealth tech has its limitations and these limitations are being exploited more and more by technology.

    Your statement reminds me of "we don't need a cannon on the F-4. The future of air to air combat is missiles!"
     
  5. milorafferty

    milorafferty Banned

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    Who needs to dogfight when your opponents piece of junk crashes before making it to the fight?
     
  6. PaulDennis

    PaulDennis New Member

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    You mean like when Chetty boy flies his Comanche to CA to fight with you and Steven? :roflol:

     
  7. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    The question is - is the idiots in government? Or, under the guise of new research - stealing budget money? I think the reason for the continuation of this research - banal theft and corruption. By the way, to a trillion dollars.
     
  8. milorafferty

    milorafferty Banned

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    Yea, chet probably was "consulted" on the Russian planes too. Dude is world famous afterall.
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    err....how would anyone see the F-35?

    you can't dogfight against an F-35 if your radars can't see it.
     
  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The F-35 was supposed to be the "cheap and lower capability" aircraft. While the F-22 Raptor was supposed to take on the MIG-29s, SU-27s, SU-33s and what have you in air combat.

    Why do people keep acting like the F-35 is supposed to be some kind of world beating aircraft? It was supposed to be versatile and cheap (compared to the F-22) and NOT use technology that we would be afraid other nations would get ahold of.
     
  11. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    You do not consider the main reason of the production of expensive aircraft in the United States. The main reason - corruption and banal theft of budget
    money.
    Cheap plane - a small funding - a little money can be stolen. So - the F-35 and a trillion dollars
     
  12. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    For the US, nothing will help. Neither the F-22, Neither the F-35 .... nothing will help.

    If you judge the military exercises "Jade Helmet," except Alaska, California and New York - Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Florida - can also become part of Russia.
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Corruption is not the main problem with the F-35.

    The problem is the effort to get ONE and only one type of aircraft to replace half a dozen widely different aircraft.

    The F-35 is supposed to replace the F-16, early model F/A-18s, the A-10, the AV-8B Harriers plus a number of foreign combat aircraft.

    That has never worked out well and the F-35 concept was a "solution" imposed on the military by Congress.
     
  14. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    It's still early in it's development. No matter what, you can't put much more than 9G's on a human pilot. The days of the dogfight are rapidly reaching an end. With modern weapons, if you're seen you're dead. The B17 came close to being cancelled. The Corsair was originally developed as a carrier based system that was initially a failure. The P51 was a failure till the engine was changed. Then there was the P 38.
     
  15. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    A part that I adore the helmet of the F-35 pilots ... [so stylish!]
    [​IMG]

    The point is that the F35 can lock an incoming target before the incoming target can lock it. Stealth doesn't mean invisible, it means that also using VHF or IR systems a not stealth plane will be able to lock the F35 not more far than 50km [estimates say this], but the F35 will lock you at 80km.

    30Km at 2,000km/h mean a time of about 54 seconds [an eternity if you are in a hurry trying to avoid the incoming missiles from the stealth opponent, having to think to lock it as soon as possible].

    So, that test pilot probably is not Italian. We produce F35 and our test pilots don't launch them in dog fight [may be it's a matter of Italian stylish pilots, you know ...].
     
  16. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    G forces is actually a poor measure of aircraft or platform maneuverability and remember that SAMs have been capable of pulling more Gs since the early 1960s yet no SAM system ever made has proven to have a consistent kill rate of better than 30%.

    Note, a Soviet made MIG-25 Foxbat can pull barely 3 Gs yet has successfully on numerous occasions evaded Western made Air to Air missiles including modern versions of the Pheonix and AMRAAMs.

    Everyone proclaims that "dogfighting is dead" yet by and large even in the modern era it still seems to make a comeback. In fact since World War Two, most aircraft shot down by modern warplanes has been within visual range (dogfighting range).
     
  17. JHoneyman

    JHoneyman New Member Past Donor

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    That F-16 with external weapons looks like it could be seen on radar from a 1,000 miles away. More naysayers trashing a great airplane.
    Question: The F-35 was primarily designed for:
    1. Attack
    2. Air combat

    As the U.S. continuously pushes the performance envelope for new (5th) generation (stealth) fighters...
    1. Development is more complex
    2. Development is more costly
    3. All of the above
     
  18. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    plane doesn't need to dogfight, as its almost invisible by radar.
     
  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't work. As rules of engagement can (and frequently do) force aircraft to close to visual range before engaging in combat.
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    modern day dogfighting relies on radar, not visuals.
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Very few modern combat is based on radar. Almost all post World War Two has REQUIRED aircraft to close to visual range. For the simple matter to avoid shooting down one of your own.

    The U.S. didn't fight based simply on radar in Vietnam or the Gulf Wars. The IDF fought at visual range in all the Arab/Israeli Wars despite massive radar advantages for the IDF side.
     
  22. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mostly X-band radars & mostly from the frontal aspect, against L-band radars not so good. And the achievement is not invisibility but reduced detection range.

    At the time the Joint Strike Fighter was decided on to save costs with commonality of parts across the services the resulting airframe (F-35) was not going to need to dogfight as the F-22 was going to be used to clear the skies of enemy fighters, kind of like the sending the Phantom into combat without a gun. You would have been right though if everything had of gone to plan.:icon_(*)(*)(*)(*)hitsthefan
     
    Dayton3 and (deleted member) like this.
  23. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fighters now are supposed to have situational awareness & communicate with each other through secure data links, so far aircraft with that ability have only been used to bomb third world countries back to the stone ages.
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Well, arguably Iraq and Serbia were not Third World Countries.

    At any rate, stealth was always seen as primary an asset for long range bombers and tactical attack aircraft. Able to slip through gaps in radar coverage thanks to reduced detection range.

    No reasonably competent fighter pilot would rely on stealth characteristics in aircraft to aircraft combat.

    And given that only one American aircraft has been shot down by another aircraft in nearly 40 years (Scott Speiker's F/A-18 downed by an Iraqi MIG-25 in 1991, kind of by accident) it makes sense that stealth for the attack mission is the primary focus.
     
  25. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    Stealth technology - a PR.
    In Yugoslavia, the Russian Rocket 50s easily detected and shot down stealth aircraft.

    [​IMG]

    Imagine what might With S-300 (eg S300 Russian put to Iran). Not to mention S-400 or S-500.
     

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