Texas doctor says he violated nation's most restrictive antiabortion law to challenge it

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you called it
     
  2. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Lmfao. Are you serious? No dude, that would be you. Look it up.
     
  3. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    lmfao. Yeah I'm serious. Using viability as the test for when it's ok to take a life is arbitrary. The time a fetus can be saved changes as our medical tech advances too. Your 3rd trimester "viability" may have been true in the 70's but it's not today.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  4. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry... I go with the phrase experts, not the forum hopefuls

    SNIP
    the practice of changing the number or composition of judges on a court, making it more favorable to particular goals or ideologies, and typically involving an increase in the number of seats on the court:
    ENDSNIP

    Mitch McConnell pretending to count noses is "not a process"... If he had the no votes, he would have HAPPILY put Garland on the floor...

    He didn't...

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/court-packing
     
  5. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just using the online dictionary.. I'd explain what that is, but I'd probably have to use an online dictionary...
     
  6. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    You asked a question and I answered. How's that definition of arbitrary coming?
     
  7. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    Ask your mom or dad, or any adult for that matter, how roe v wade can be considered arbitrary. I don't have the patience to try to make you think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  8. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Now there's a second, similar-type, lawsuit from somebody in Arkansas who opposes the law

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/20/politics/texas-abortion-doctor-lawsuit/index.html

    Does nobody who wants to protect the fetuses want to take this on?? I guess it's a little harder when you have to get through "Lawsuits for Dummies" first....
     
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  9. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would MUCH rather live with the danger of having unvaccinated people running around and risk having hospitals get crowded than give this kind of power to the government. You give an inch and they'll take a mile. They'll begin citing COVID as a precedent for other "health related" issues. Soon they'll require **** like injecting microchips that track where people are moving around, for public safety. It's a slippery slope. I got my vaccination, because I CHOSE to. I'd like to keep it that way. I've had a few relatives die from COVID already, but if mandating vaccines would bring them back, I would say to them, "sorry, I'll meet you in the next life".

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin's quote is as true now as it was back then. Our freedoms are quickly being chipped away. The trend needs to be reversed.
     
  10. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    So you're using only part of the definition then? Try using the whole definition or at least use reliable online dictionaries.

    Court-packing | Definition of Court-packing by Merriam-Webster
     
  11. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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  12. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    You're all over the place. Arbitrary would be random. 3rd trimester is specific because of viability. Just admit your error and move on dude. You've devolved into a selfish brat with these posts. You're wrong. Admit or not but this is just silly
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  13. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    The reason that they chose viability as the cutoff was due to conflicting Rights. Like it or not the woman has Rights also. And they cannot just be summarily discarded any more arbitrarily than you think of viability as being arbitrary. Viability was chosen because that is when the fetus has a high chance to survive outside of the womb. Yes, technology has made it to where a fetus as young as 20 weeks can survive. But those are extremely extremely EXTREMELY rare still. Even at 26 weeks along a fetus is considered pre-viable still. Any child born between the 20-26 week mark is considered a micro-preemie. As in, they're lucky to be alive.
     
  14. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you want to ditch that guy and read something REALLY silly, read the lawsuit from the Arkansas felon suing the doctor..

    Especially note where it gets WEIRD.... around item #16....

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/arkansas-man-sued-texas-doctor-234752269.html
     
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  15. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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  16. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    Using viability as the point in time in which an abortion can be legally executed in indeed arbitrary. Why not heartbeat or detectable brain activity? Why not viable +2 weeks? The decision was f**king arbitrary. I'm not the only one making this claim btw. The fact the you don't understand it is not my fault.
    Here is just one example but you can easily find many other instances of people making this claim.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/mississippi-supreme-court-overturn-roe-wade-79000067

    "Mississippi argues that viability is an arbitrary standard that doesn’t take sufficient account of the state’s interest in regulating abortion."
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  17. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    For starters, let's correct your understanding of what you quoted.

    https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/3902...safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century

    <SNIP>

    SIEGEL: And what was the context of this remark?

    WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

    SIEGEL: So far from being a pro-privacy quotation, if anything, it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.

    WITTES: It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means.
    <END SNIP>

    So the quote supports MY position, not yours.

    Secondly, your mental jump to injected, tracking microchips, sounds like paranoia.

    Thirdly, I never actually said that the government should have this power. I was:
    A) pointing out how your comparing a potential vaccine mandate, to outlawing abortion, was a false analogy;
    B) saying that, without a vaccine mandate, there is justification for prohibiting the unvaccinated from overly threatening others' health.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  18. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regardless of what it's original intent was, the quote works just fine for my purposes and is just as applicable.

    And yes, I am paranoid of the government's intentions. If they can gain more power and control from a crisis, they will. Have a look at what they attempt to do with the patriot act. Similar situation, really.

    As to your A and B, bottom line is the government can just butt out. I'm fine with government buildings barring unvaccinated if they wish, as well as private businesses admitting whoever they want or barring whoever they want without government interference. But having sweeping government mandates affecting everyone and everything, either telling them what to do to their body or telling people where they can and cannot go is an abuse of power.
     
  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Just a tidbit I recently learned...George Washington mandated that all his troops get small pox vaccine...(I was surprised they had it . I'll have to check)



    If it's true then all Repubs and righties HAVE to vilify and hate G. Washington....:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  20. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Another tidbit to your tidbit.... do you know WHO recommended the vaccines to Washington??

    That's right... Tony Fauci.... He's been around a LONG LONG time...

    :)
     
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  21. Indlib

    Indlib Well-Known Member

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    So much for innocemt until proven guilty from the right.

    Not shocking, par for the course.
     
  22. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    So, to recap, you are essentially withdrawing your contention that mandating a vaccine would be analogous to prohibiting abortion, other than in the very basic way, that both involve health care & government interference?

    The only problem with your argument, then, that government should just "butt out," is that public health has ALWAYS been part of government's mandate. And addressing a pandemic is an especially impelling objective, beyond just promoting "the general welfare." Therefore, it is provably false, to call your emboldened, concluding remark, "an abuse of power." Either a vaccine mandate or-- what I think is more likely-- restrictions on those who refuse to get vaccinated, fall 100% within government's purview (like it or not).

    Other than in your microchip scenario, I do not see how requiring a vaccine, during a pandemic, is at all similar to the government continuously monitoring & secretly collecting private information from its citizens. Perhaps you would care to try to make the case for this analogy?


    Liberty has consequences...
    and, so, responsibilities.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  23. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    lol, the military is the opposite of a free society. They may fight to secure freedom for others, but I’m the military you are generally not free to do as you please. I got stuck with more needles than I can count while I was in, including anthrax that I almost passed out from the first time I got it. I definitely do not want my civilian life to be even remotely similar to my military life.
     
  24. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Looks like the anti-choice folks are not happy they've been beaten to the punch by 2 non believers

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-abortion-group-championed-texas-151624321.html

    As they say deep in the heart of Texiban, tough toenails....
     
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  25. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Its like I'm a licensed attorney who went to a school with a concentration in civil rights and took almost exclusively constitutional law electives even if I mainly do regular civil law in my practice.
     
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