That abortion is morally acceptable.

Discussion in 'Debates & Contests' started by MegadethFan, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2 said,

    No I don't.

    So you want a medal for it? What? ABortion is killing a living human being. You encouraged someone to do this.


    Thats life…troubles and challenges. Have you ever had any? Abortion kills and is not the answer. It might be for the one doing the killing but it isn't for the one being ripped apart.

    (Friends, daughters of friends, my own daughter, granddaughters of friends and family members.)

    No…none. Is there a gray area regarding rape? yes or no



    The law is the law and we must abide by it. Abortion is killing a living human being. What are you saying here…the bar owner should lock the drinker up?

    In every bar across America bartenders shut people off. They stop serving them booze. People want to drink…they will find places to drink. How many lives might be saved by the actions of a bartender that called the police? Doing the right thing…never is wrong. It is to bad you don't see this.

    Right is right…always will be.


    You certainly love the word whore. Right is right…and sometimes we have to risk losing what is important to gain something that in the long run is more important.

    For people who are moral relativists…yes…not for people with faith in God. GEt it?

    Does not matter what century she lives in…right is right and wrong is always wrong. Two wrongs never make a right. This is a simple issue.


    Then listen to me…..ABORTION IS WRONG, IT IS IMMORAL. FROM FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE I AM TELLING YOU THIS….WHY CAN'T YOU GRASP IT?
     
  2. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    churchmouse, dear lovely woman,

    Typing in all caps in considered SHOUTING where I come from.
    It's rude, and un-called for.

    I admire your stubborn insistence on defending your position on this issue, and your devotion to God, if indeed you believe that God wants for all abortions to stop.
    It's curious to me though; He's a pretty powerful God. One would think He could stop all abortions with a wave of His hand.

    Re; "So you want a medal for it? What? ABortion is killing a living human being. You encouraged someone to do this."

    Perhaps you didn't read deep enough, my good and admirable woman.
    I knew that the woman in question was not pregnant.
    (The flight surgeon and two of her 'friends' had already confirmed this for me.)
    She was playing a ridiculous game of 'the relationship is over, and you don't want to be with me anymore, so I'll spring the pregnancy trap, and see if you fall into it'.
    I didn't.

    Re; "You certainly love the word whore."
    I do NOT love the word whore. I have never visited a whore in my life.
    But the girl in that real life scenario was treated like a whore, after she (wisely) broke off the engagement to Young Jimmy.
    Many in her family in church called her a whore for having done so.

    Her life eventually turned out just fine.
    She married a nice Naval Officer, and moved away from that backwards town.
    She has two wonderful kids, and is a respected school teacher.
    But her memories of that difficult shades of gray situation are still clear in her mind.
    Nothing about it was black and white.
     
  3. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    It is immoral to force women to donate the use of their body against their will. It was never used to be so, but we know better these days.
     
  4. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    churchmouse, your religious beliefs are your own business, but I'm plain C of E and I don't share them. You have to accept that not everyone agrees with the views of your church.
     
  5. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    ..and isn't it wonderful that we (currently anyway) live in a world where we are free to disagree, free to worship as we please (or not), and free to openly express our opinion?

    Here is the bottom line (for me) on the topic of abortion:

    a. If you object to abortion, don't get one. And encourage your sisters and daughters not to get one.

    b. If you support the concept of abortion being legal, then go get one. And have your tubes tied while you are in there.

    End of problem.
     
  6. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2 said,

    "..and isn't it wonderful that we (currently anyway) live in a world where we are free to disagree, free to worship as we please (or not), and free to openly express our opinion?"

    Our rights are being taken away little by little every day. And one time real soon, especially if you want to express your religious and moral convictions you won't be able to do it…or you will be bashed just like the CEO of Chick was demeaned.



    And if you don't want to rape someone, then don't. If you don't want to abuse your children don't. If you don't want to own slaves…..don't. If you don't want to do drugs and drink alcohol don't. Right? We should just look away…….SHHHHHHHH. Because God knows….you don't want to stop someone from expressing their free rights to do what they want. Whats right for you might not be right for me. Isn't that what you are saying? So in your utopia….its tolerance for everything. And that "everything" that big TOLERANCE WORD…is taking us down into the moral less pit.


    LMAO…HAHAHA…..HEHEHEH Your a hoot. Why should they get their tubes tied? LMAO IS THERE SOMETHING MORALLY WRONG WITH ABORTION? YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT HERE. IF THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT…THEN WHY NOT GET AS MANY AS YOU WANT?


    People who believe as you do that hold the position that it is fine to look away from evil….are the problem.
     
  7. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    I agree 100%. (Assuming you are talking about Chick-Fil-A.)
    Horribly, ridiculous, partisan-political stunt by the rabid left.
    The idiots who supported a boycott of Chick-Fil-A for the views of that man (regarding believing that marriage is between and man and woman) are tools of a political party, and nothing more.
    Sad, it is.


    You are wrong, dear lady, and you mis-characterize what I have posted here.
    Further, you make assumptions regarding my moral character, and my feelings regarding 'tolerance'.
    I am not a particularly tolerant person.

    Here's a news flash for you;
    I am for the death penalty for rapists.
    I am for the death penalty for child abusers.
    (I, and my siblings, were sexually-abused as children by our sick father, as a matter of fact. He is dead now, and I am glad.)
    I would PERSONALLY strangle to death any person I caught abusing a child, either physically or sexually.

    I don't own slaves, I don't condone slavery, I am firmly against drunk driving, I am against drug abuse, and I am for the death penalty for convicted crystal meth dealers and manufacturers.


    Simple.
    So they won't get pregnant again, and have to go kill another baby.
    What don't you get about that?

    There is something morally wrong with abortion.
    I hate the idea of abortion, and it is morally wrong to me.
    But it is also a practical reality of our modern society.
    Neither black nor white, but horribly, tragically gray.


    You are dead-wrong, dear, precious, misguided child of God.
    You wrongly embue me with the characteristics of somebody else, I think.
    (Some sort of 'black or white', hard-lefty or hard-conservative type person.)
    I am an independent free thinker.

    I have never looked away from evil.
    I have fought for good.
    I have formed neighborhood watch programs to drive out crime and drugs, and I have shut down two drug houses in no less than two States, Alabama and Hawaii.
    I joined the Army and have been to WAR to fight for your religious freedoms, and the freedoms of all Americans.
    I'm the guy who stops the car in heavy traffic to rescue a stray dog who might otherwise get run over by cars.
    Heck, I'm the guy who stops the car in heavy traffic to rescue a turtle crossing the road who would definitely get run over by cars.

    I HATE abortion.
    It breaks my heart.
    But I know the practical realities.
    I know the outcomes if it were not legal.

    Don't hang your labels on me.
    I don't deserve them.

    I am a compassionate realist, if you MUST hang a label on me.





    .
     
  8. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2

    Yes a political party but also citizens who believe that all people don't deserve free speech not if their views are contrary to theirs.

    I don't think so but your free to believe what you want. You stated that you are for abortion being legal. To me this is an immoral position. So of course I believe anyone who is for abortion takes the immoral stance. No difference than if I was for legalizing prostitution and someone said they thought it was immoral…would I be immoral in their eyes. There is nothing wrong with believing someone is immoral. If you are pro-abortion…then you should not care if someone calls you a pro-abort and believes you are immoral. I think slavery is immoral…and I certainly would believe the people doing it are immoral. This is free speech and I have the right to disagree and speak my mind even if you disagree. You can believe about me whatever you want..I am anti-womans rights….whatever…does not bother me because I am anti-womans rights if it gives them the power to kill.

    I am not for the death penalty. Abortion kills…rapes is violent but it does not kill. In this case you are for another act of violence, just like I believe abortion is violence. Does two wrongs ever make a right?

    I am not for the death penalty….a cell that is dark damp and filled with bugs…but not death. Let them live forever thinking about their actions…death is to easy a sentence for people like this.


    I would imagine you are glad and I am sorry you went through such a horrific experience. Hopefully he is paying for what he did. For the person who does not believe in God…then your father got away with it.

    But you see I feel the same way about abortion you do about child abuse. I would like to strangle anyone standing at the abortion table getting ready to do abortions. I can't believe that you can't see that abortion is child abuse….boggles my mind.

    You don't condone slavery. OK…would you have stood up against it during the Civil War? Or would you have taken the same attitude you have towards abortion. "I don't personally believe in slavery but it is someones right to own slaves if they want too." There were people that did just that. And today there are people who are content to sit back and allow abortion.

    So you condone killing babes…because you are pro-abortion…..WHY CAN'T YOU SEE THAT? YOU CONONE SOMETHING THAT IS IMMORAL? LMAO

    I most certainly get that…you don't.


    No it is not. Most our history was lived without abortion being legal. It is sad that people are so weak that they can not stand up for the truth…for what it right. So sad. It is not gray. The abortionists job is not gray. His goal is to kill…..that is not gray. How is that gray?

    You just say……that you are for killing babies and YOU CALL ME A MISGUIDED CHILD OF GOD. LMAO Did cocktail hour start early in your house today? Cause wow….you call that which is in the womb a baby…and then you say abortion is a necessary evil. LMAO

    Oh honey your a free thinker alright…..can't say what I want here………..

    LMAO Killing babies is wrong…but its ok…that is what you said. That evil my dear you defend. "


    Great….and so what? Did your campaign for an abortion clinic to come into the neighborhood? Don't those people doing the drugs have the right to do them? Why shouldn't they have the right to do anything to their bodies? You think woman should get the right…why not people who want to do drugs? Why are you denying them the right to their own bodies? ARe you campaigning to legalize drugs? Cause kids are going to do them…why not provide them clean needles and a safe place to do them.

    Thank you for serving. Yet you do all these things and you can't stand up for abortion. I don't get it, I just don't. A child is certainly more important than a dog or turtle isn't it? Why don't you picket Planned Parenthoods or march with people who want abortion to stop?


    Cry me a river will ya? LMAO This is crap…you don't hate abortion….YOU WANT IT LEGAL REMEMBER. Weren't you the guy whose daughter got knocked up and YOU WANTED HER TO ABORT? So don't feed me….that you hate abortion….its simply not true…not by what you have posted on this site. You might fool others…but you don't fool me. LOL

    The reality….abortion kills living human babies you said it yourself. YOU WANT IT LEGAL. YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU SAID WAS IMMORAL TO BE LEGAL.

    You put the label on yourself…and I will continue to use the label of pro-abort until you want abortion illegal..until you stand up for the unborn in the womb. You deserve what you get…and that is the label….you just don't like how it sounds and how it makes you look. That sir is your fault and no one else's.



    Your position is hypocritical….you don't care about the unborn not really…not at all. Compassion? LMAO AGainst can't say what I really want to say.


    .[/QUOTE]
     
  9. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    Don't hold back, sister.

    You do not have to hold your tongue.
    If there is something you really want to say, just SAY IT.

    Lest you be thought a coward, and a hypocrite yourself.

    As for me?
    I speak the unapologetic truth.

    Without internet-friendly acronyms, go figure.

    I'm a fan of the English language.
    And the straight-up truth.

    And I sleep the sleep of the just, each and every night.

    I hope that you too sleep really well, sister of God.
     
  10. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2 said,

    While I would like to be able to share all my feelings here I can not do that…there are rules. I never use profanity I am not talking about that….but my hands are tied lets say by the moderators who enforce the rules. So I have to hold back.

    As I said…there are rules…and ones has to watch what they say and how they say it on here.
    If there is something you really want to say, just SAY IT.

    This is a violation of the rules….to call me a coward and a hypocrite isn't it? ARen't you suppose to attack the position and NOT THE PERSON? Should I report you …?



    That which YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE TRUTH. And your POSITION is all over….you wanted your daughter to get an abortion…and then you say abortion tears you up you hate it. LMAO Oh yea honey….you speak all right, but I wouldn't call it the truth.



    And this is the straight up truth. You hate abortion. You condone abortion, you want it legal. You want women to be able to kill their "babies". You called them babies remember. So tell me how moral a position is that?


    The just? LMAO LMAO

    Laughing to hard to respond to that one.
     
  11. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    Pfft.
    My good woman, just state in plain, honest English how you feel.
    The truth shall set you free, or so I heard some wise man once wrote.

    If they haven't thrown ME off of here by now, trust me, you have nothing to worry about.


    You may report me if you wish, and if it will make you feel better.
    After all, your feelings matter, and mine do not.
    (By your own calculation, you hold the moral high ground, and so you should have whatever makes you happy, stable, and sane.)

    But please note, I said, "lest you be thought a coward and a hypocrite yourself".
    I did not call you a coward, nor a hypocrite.
    I only offered you sincere and honest advice on how to avoid that particular perception.
    I have lived longer than you, after all, and I am much more wise about these matters.


    Exactly where did you get the impression that I wanted my daughter to get an abortion?
    Please elaborate, good and honorable woman.


    I DO hate abortion.
    The very thought of it turns my stomach.
    It breaks my heart.
    But I am a practical man, and a voting-age citizen, with a mind of his own.
    I am not bound to any one group, Party, church, or dogma.
    I know the practical outcome if abortion were to become legalized.
    I cannot bring myself to wail and blubber over intangibles and fairy tale worlds where all babies are adopted, and no tiny child is lost in the foster care system, or beaten to death by a parent or parents who don't have the brains, money, income, or desire to properly raise that child.



    Please stop laughing.
    This is serious business.
    Very serious.
    You are in a position to open up your mind to the realities of the shades of gray that exist in the real world.
    Do not turn down the opportunity to learn something, I beg you.

    I can teach you, guide you, and help lead you to a higher state of consciousness.

    All you have to do is open up your mind, and release yourself from the shackles of primitive, judgmental dogma and noble (but misguided) anger.

    I am here for you, good woman.
     
  12. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2 said,



    Can't do it. I was warned for using the term……enslave. LMAO So our hands are tied and there is not total free speech. The mods are left…so that makes a difference.


    I do not report people. After I got that lame warning…I did like ten reports in one thread to show the bias on this forum. It is not fair.



    "I only offered you sincere and honest advice on how to avoid that particular perception.
    I have lived longer than you, after all, and I am much more wise about these matters."

    LMAO

    How old are you? LOL

    I do not need your advice…especially from someone who believes that killing unborn children..you called them babies I believe….is ok. No thanks.



    I thought it was you…I can't remember. Are you the one with the daughter who got pregnant who had the baby?



    Bull…..you believe abortion should be legal…so don't feed me that crap…sorry.




    "


    Hey no one knows the seriousness like I do. I am much closer to this topic then you will ever be. You need not tell me anything. You could learn a bit…you don't know it all. I have not learned one thing from you yet.


    Well thanks but no thanks…I don't want anything to do with your brand of morality.

    Yea? And you need to open your heart and explore feelings.

    You need to look into the mirror and really get a look at what you represent. For me you do not represent…goodness, sorry. But you do like yourself don't you? LOL
     
  13. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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  14. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    Here I am with my daughter's fiancé, my daughter, my wife, and my granddaughter.
    I am the old guy with gray hair, in the middle of the pack.

    094335.jpg


    And here I am composing a song for my grandbaby.

    170337.jpg
     
  15. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Abortionists use two arguments to try to justify abortion:
    First, that the unborn baby is not worthy of human life, and second,
    that the mother has a right to kill a human life when it is inside her.
    In either case, it seems obvious that abortionists do not have a very high regard for human life.
     
  16. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    You use the term, 'abortionists'.
    By that, do you mean those who actually perform the abortions (the doctors), or do you mean those who support the right of women to have abortions on demand?

    Not picking a fight, mind you, I'm just curious about your choice of words, and to exactly who you attribute those nefarious feelings regarding a lack of respect for life.
     
  17. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2 said,


    Then why are you pro-abortion. Why do you want it legal if it is so bad?


    Not if there are people like you in this country who do nothing…who are content to side back and think the way you do. You do nothing but blubber about how you are such a good person and you oppose abortion. What a crock.


    I believe you said awhile back that you wanted her to get an abortion…did you not?


    And to think you support abortion… and that could have killed her. It kills millions like her however. And then you would have never known her.


    Well right and wrongs don't change. Rape is always wrong…child abuse and pornography is always wrong. Murder is always wrong. Maybe one day you will come to understand that somethings are not gray.

    I am on a debate site…and you are not the only one I respond too.



    Proverbs 16:18 warns that "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."
     
  18. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Nice looking family…and darling grandchild. A shame one day you might have to explain why you support killing unborn children. Hopefully she will have a mind of her own and stand up against your position.
     
  19. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Nice looking family…and darling grandchild. A shame one day you might have to explain why you support killing unborn children. Hopefully she will have a mind of her own and stand up against your position.
     
  20. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    sparky2 said,

    For me abortionist is the one performing the act of killing. Pro-aborts are those who do not want legal protection for the life in the womb. You are a pro-abort.
     
  21. sparky2

    sparky2 Banned

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    I reject your labels, and I reject your knee-jerk condemnation.

    My dear, good, Christian woman,

    If there is anything that my granddaughter, or my daughter, or anyone else for that matter wants to know, they know that they can always come to me and get the honest-to-God's truth.
    The unvarnished, no-punches-pulled, straight-up truth.
    Without any sort of preachy, moralistic judgements.
    It's part of my unique charm, and it's why people always seek me out for advice and counsel.

    "Dad, do these jeans make my butt look fat?"
    "Yes, dear. Please find something else to wear."

    "Granddad, do you think I'm pretty?"
    "Yes, Ashley. I think you are the prettiest girl in this whole room."
    "Ha ha ha! But I'm the ONLY girl in this room!"
    "Then it only follows that you are the prettiest."

    "Sparky, the weather looks crappy. Do you think we ought to go ahead and cancel the night mission tonight?"
    "No, it's only three pm, and it doesn't get dark until eight pm. Let's wait until this storm front passes through, and see if it clears out. We'll leave the helicopters inside the hangar, just in case of hail, and if the weather improves after the frontal passage, we'll push them out and accomplish the mission."
    "Good call!"

    "Sparky, are you pro-abortion, or against abortion?"
    "I am against abortion. I hate it. But I feel it is a sad fact of life in this day and age."
    "But you don't petition the government to outlaw it, and you don't stand on the street corner holding up signs depicting dead fetuses. You must be pro-abortion then. Baby killer!!"
    "Please, seek mental help. Now."


    For the last time, no. Please go back and re-read my earlier postings;
    I never urged my daughter to have an abortion.


    .
     

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