The 4 issues of self defense with your CFP

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by yiostheoy, Apr 30, 2017.

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  1. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    If you are fortunate to live someplace on this Earth where you can obtain a CFP (concealed firearm permit) for CCW (carrying a concealed weapon) then you are empowered to defend yourself against all enemies foreign or domestic (a phrase from the American oath of allegiance of politicians and the military (military here having the meaning of army, navy, marine, coast guard, and air force -- not capitalized because these are generic)) whether these enemies are criminals or invaders.

    Currently the USA is being faced with invaders from Mexico and Colombia in cartels dealing dope. Home grown criminals of all races and ethnicities are ever present on the streets as well. Where I live, car theft is a major crime because dope dealers and local bank robbers need stolen cars to ply their tradecraft. So anybody who drives a car is at risk of being murdered for it. This happened recently here just down the street at the local self car wash.

    There are 4 issues that confront anyone with a CPP who is armed, and these issues cannot be ignored nor taken lightly.

    The first is that you need to be able to draw and shoot your weapon from concealment within a fraction of a second in any situation. A fraction of a second is within the time it takes you to say "one-thousand one". This needs to be practiced with an unloaded gun in front of the mirror while wearing every type of clothing you might ever have on at the time in order to get good at it (gun here having the meaning of any firearm). [Gun geeks get bent out of shape when they hear "gun". They prefer words with more syllables like "firearm". It's more cool that way for them.]

    So drawing and shooting is the first issue that must be dealt with. Practice is the way to deal with it. A mirror is critical so that you can see what you are doing wrong.

    The second issue is hitting what you are shooting at. This requires training and practice. Training involves having someone who is a professional instructor teach you how to do it right. Practice involves going to the range regularly and doing what you were taught the right way over and over. So this is the second issue.

    Drawing and shooting accurately FASTER than your opponent is the third issue. This is a matter of seizing the opportunity at the best time and making your move. Whether or not you are a faster shot than someone else who is threatening to kill you is a complete crap shoot (matter of probability). If the perp already has his gun trained on you then you are at a severe disadvantage. The way to prevent this situation from occurring is to be totally aware of your surroundings (called situational awareness) at all times and recognizing anyone within your zone of awareness who seems odd or out of place. Perps are normally not wearing 3 piece suits. They normally wear the badges of their trade -- hoodies and saggy pants. They are often of a different race or ethnicity than you are. They are often unkempt and stink. So be aware of them and be safe. Keep your distance from them at all times. This is the third issue.

    The fourth issue is being outgunned or outnumbered. If you have a handgun and a perp has an AK-47 or AR-15 then you are at a severe disadvantage (handgun as R.Lee Ermey says is "a gun that you can shoot with one hand"). In this case you are going to want to seek cover for yourself the moment you see the long gun in their hands. These carbines are high capacity and sometimes fully auto. This is called outgunned.

    Outnumbered is simply when there are two or more perps who are armed while you are alone. Certainly the main tip-off here is when you see TWO odd or out of place people in your zone of awareness together. Naturally then you need to keep your distance from both of them and exit the area if they seem to behave strangle for the circumstances. Best thing is to leave the area right away before they can pull off their crime.

    If you are outnumbered and you do get into a gunfight with them both then you need to quickly shoot the first preferably with a double tap then shoot the second one before he figures out that it was not his buddy doing the shooting, also with a double tap, then come back to the first perp and double tap him again, then go back to the second and double tap him again as well. That's 8 rounds. So then you should tactically reload and then proceed to check them out again, making sure they are either dead by now (4 hits each should do it) or else kick their guns away from them. There is no room for error when you are outnumbered. There is no time to shout or speak. It is a matter of shoot or die.

    Those are the 4 issues of self defense with your CFP. Everyone with a CFP needs to think about all this, visualize it, get training if you don't already have training, and practice regularly, then stay aware of your surroundings at all times, especially in convenience stores, in banks, at gas stations, at bars, or while on the street.

    Comments? Questions? Did I leave anything out?
     
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  2. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    YEAH you left a lot out...Let's start with Being under imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, you have to recognize this as a basis to use deadly force before you consider any of the things you speak of, where did you get your schooling from?
     
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  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Thousands of people have effectively defended themselves both by shooting their assailant and in more cases, merely displaying a gun. Huge numbers have been successful with little or no training. It isn't what I recommend, but it is done all the time. I both teach and continually train myself to be proficient... and would recommend it, partially for ingraining the shooting skills to improve the tactical advantage and in large part for mitigating what happens when flooded with adrenaline (something rarely taught). .. By the way, in a real life and death situation, you won't be thinking about the legal consequences... just saving your own or someone else's life... been there.
    I think those packing a gun should be acquainted with the law and should take it upon themselves to have that knowledge and to train as much as they can. We like force on force scenarios simulations with simunition... while not a bodily risk, it is amazingly stressful and prepares people for the effects of adrenaline surges. But, I don't see it as a requirement, but a personal responsibility to be knowledgeable and as skillful as possible.
    The hardest thing to teach is continual situation awareness where you can mentally be prepared for any contingency... in our simulations, we try to incorporate some levels of teaching situational awareness. Usually, you will see a situation developing, the question is, can you see it and mentally prepare for it.
    But, all that said, I still would say many people successfully defend themselves with little or no training. Even as a master gunfighter, your skills are no guarantee as Wild Bill's Ghost discovered... Better the chance to have a chance than none at all.
     
  4. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    Where do you live that you are that paranoid?
     
  5. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in West Belfast and lived in Chicago for years, downstate Ohio and worked in Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Honduras on an off for years. And, it's not paranoia, but preparedness, not unlike having a spare in my car or fire extinguisher in my shop.
    And, given my history, being prepared kept me alive.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  6. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about"
    Clint Smith
     
  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    What if your opponent doesn't have a gun?
     
  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Where liberal politicians, pundits, news anchors and useful idiots tell us gun-related crime is so bad, the rights of the law abiding must be further limited.
    The -only- thoughtful reaction to living in such a place is to carry a firearm for self-defense.
     
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  9. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    While in the fetal position, no doubt.:rolleyes:
     
  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Please keep your projections to yourself.
     
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  11. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    what is the purpose of such a silly post? If crime is so bad that honest peoples' rights have to be curtailed to allegedly disarm all those violent criminals, then crime is so bad that honest people ought to be carrying 18 shot handguns and protecting their home with fully automatic carbines
     
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  12. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    That's a really good question.

    In that case you have to look at the other factors involved in the situation, like they teach you in the CFP classes.

    I take it that you have not taken any of the CFP classes anywhere then ??

    Which also means you also DON'T have a CFP either ??

    [CFP - concealed firearm permit.]
     
  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    I mean more in terms of the speed of your draw. How important is it to draw quickly?
    How quick do you need to be on the draw if an opponent has a ball bat?
    Of if there's two or more of them, but no apparent weapon?

    Piss-poor assumption on your part.
     
  14. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    A deduction vs an assumption are two completely different things.

    My deduction that you had not taken a CFP class was based on your question about what if the other person(s) is/are not armed with a gun.

    That is a classic topic that comes up in all the CFP classes everywhere.

    And it is also covered in the Massad Ayoob videos that most of them use.

    So if you did attend one, they the next most logical deduction is that you did not pay attention.
     
  15. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Do you want me to review all the material from the CFP classes on this ??
     
  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You failed to account for the possibility that I asked to question to see if YOU had taken any such classes.
    Thus, your deduction was piss-poor as well.

    So, I'll ask again:
    How quick do you need to be on the draw if an opponent has a ball bat?
    Of if there's two or more of them, but no apparent weapon?
     
  17. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    That's called a loaded question.

    Loaded questions are fallacies and show a very weak grasp of logic.

    You should study the fallacy list below and stop using fallacies @TOG 6 .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
     
  18. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    People who use fallacies go right onto my iggy list.

    Thank you for trying to participate @TOG 6 .

    However your fallacy addiction makes any kind of participation by you nonproductive.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  19. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They are simple questions based on your assertions and assumptions.
    Clearly, you are not as well versed at defensive gun use as you believe.
     
  20. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    No matter how much training you've had, anything can happen..You just have to play along and hope for the best..It's not like a movie..
     
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  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Certainly. There are few hard and fast rules, because it is easy to point out plausible exceptions.
     
  22. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for making it clear I need not waste any more time on you.
     
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  23. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can be ambushed, adrenaline can go from 0 - 60 in a second which is why I train continually and advocate the same for anyone. But, should you not have that option, being armed with a chance to survive beats being ambushed with unarmed with no chance.
    I frequently talk about having situational awarness, it provides an opportunity to observe, anticipate and prepare.
    There are a lot of senarios, when training women, my fiancée, teaches them how to assess potential threats (walking to a car alone in a parking structure) and when uncertain, have a gun, hidden in hand so a draw isn't necessary. 99% of the time no threat, but you are prepared for the monster lurking in the shadows. I scan for threats so seamlessly, it is a natural, not a paranoid fear thing...not unlike being a kid scanning for dropped money. It has saved my life.
     
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  24. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clearly, good call. Now we can both go on iggy. (my poor heart is broken)
     
  25. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    A mark of honor and distinction
     
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