The Attempt to Establish a Climate Ministry of Truth

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  2. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    So you’re using NASA data. You must respect their findings. Do you want to know what NASA says about climate change.

    it has never returned to 1984 levels. Oh, but your world begins 2007. Are you a seven day adventists ?
    upload_2021-10-31_19-55-38.jpeg
     
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  3. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Gee, from 2007 to 10, 000 years ago. You’re just throwing **** against the wall. Wonder what Mitch says…you’re group is shrinking.
     
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  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Oh, an animation….what time of the year and where is it for any other years early.
    I see there is no comparison to ice before 1980s . Of course not. Btw, did you find just one university that agrees with you ? One country or one major Corp ? Just one.
     
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  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Kenneth Richard ? Is he a University, country or major corporation ? Another failure down in flames.
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    so your objective is to prove beyound a shadow of a doubt, that AGW is real…..well you’re doing it. The rates of change of all measurements related to climate change are greater during the industrial revolution then at any time man has been in earth.

    btw, found any country , university or major Corp who agrees with you ?
     
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  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    We’re not ignoring the chart, we’re ignoring your words. You have no idea about anything related to climate science. It’s paste and copy woo woo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Hard evidence ? From a soft source.
    Got any country, university or major Corp that agrees with you ?
    Not even trying are you ?
     
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  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget I teach ballroom dancing and philosophy. The number of braggarts here from the right deserves a little humility.
     
  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That’s a silly comment. You’re own quote from a fellow denier contained a comparison control group with average temps during that similar thirty year period. Then you claim we introduced it ? It’s you who are “ typing” out of both sides of your mouth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    No wait. That’s not even empirical data ?
    BTW, why should the right be using graphs from 10,000 years ago when many don’t even think the earth is that old ?
     
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  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Arctic sea ice extent is greater now than at any time in the last 10,000 years.
    [​IMG]
    3 More New Studies Show Modern Arctic Sea Ice Extent Is Greater Than Nearly Any Time In The Last 10,000 Years

    By Kenneth Richard on 29. October 2020

    For years scientists have been using biomarker evidence (IP25, PIP25) to reconstruct the Arctic’s sea ice history. The evidence shows modern (20th-21st century) Arctic sea ice is at its greatest extent since the Holocene began. Scientists (Wu et al., 2020) have determined that from about 14,000 to 8,000 years ago, when CO2 lingered near 250 […]
    The peer-reviewed research:
    Wu et al., 2020
    Durantou et al., 2012
    Allaart et al., 2020
     
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  15. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Until the industrial revolution. Then it SUDDENLY started disappearing. Thanks for making that point.
     
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  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The evidence shows modern (20th-21st century) Arctic sea ice is at its greatest extent since the Holocene began.
     
  17. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn’t. Not since the industrial revolution started. It started shrinking. Look at your own diagrams from the 1900s on. It’s less today then it was 100 years ago. Maybe you avoided those years.
     
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  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    20th and 21st century greatest sea ice extent of the holocene:



    [​IMG]
     
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That has nothing to do with climate change. Nothing. It’s how fast the temps change and how fast the ice melt is recently. Since the mid 1850s.
     
  20. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Building on robust Arctic sea ice extent in the 20th and 21st centuries, recent trends show growth.
    Surprise! September Arctic Minimum Sea Ice Extent Trend RISING Over Past 10 Years – Norwegian Data
    2021 › 09 › 12 › arctic-september-minimum-sea-ice-extent-trend-rising-over-past-10-years
    met.no data on annual minimum sea ice extent: ... OSI Arctic sea ice minimum since 2012 ftp://osisaf ... Again here’s Arctic sea ice volume going back 170 years: ... Today’s sea ice volume is similar
     
  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    As for the Industrial Revolution, not so important.
    Again here’s Arctic sea ice volume going back 170 years:

    [​IMG]
    Today’s sea ice volume is similar to that seen in the 1940s.
     
  22. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Several more published papers show similar results:

    Journal of Quaternary Science

    Holocene variability in sea ice cover, primary production, and Pacific-Water inflow and climate change in the Chukchi and East Siberian Seas (Arctic Ocean)

    Ruediger Stein,et al

    Version of Record online: 27 FEB 2017

    ABSTRACT

    In this study, we present new detailed biomarker-based sea ice records from two sediment cores recovered in the Chukchi Sea and the East Siberian Sea. These new biomarker data may provide new insights on processes controlling recent and past sea ice changes. The biomarker proxy records show (i) minimum sea ice extent during the Early Holocene, (ii) a prominent Mid-Holocene short-term high-amplitude variability in sea ice, primary production and Pacific-Water inflow, and (iii) significantly increased sea ice extent during the last ca. 4.5k cal a BP. This Late Holocene trend in sea ice change in the Chukchi and East Siberian Seas seems to be contemporaneous with similar changes in sea ice extent recorded from other Arctic marginal seas. The main factors controlling the millennial variability in sea ice (and surface-water productivity) are probably changes in surface water and heat flow from the Pacific into the Arctic Ocean as well as the long-term decrease in summer insolation. The short-term centennial variability observed in the high-resolution Middle Holocene record is probably related to solar forcing. Our new data on Holocene sea ice variability may contribute to synoptic reconstructions of regional to global Holocene climate change based on terrestrial and marine archives.

    [​IMG]

    LINK

    The words, 20th Century, Little Ice Age and Medieval warm period were onto the chart added by Kenneth Richards at No Tricks Zone.

    ===

    Quaternary Science Reviews

    Arctic Ocean perennial sea ice breakdown during the Early Holocene Insolation Maximum

    15 May 2014

    Christian Stranne,et al

    Abstract

    Arctic Ocean sea ice proxies generally suggest a reduction in sea ice during parts of the early and middle Holocene (∼6000–10,000 years BP) compared to present day conditions. This sea ice minimum has been attributed to the northern hemisphere Early Holocene Insolation Maximum (EHIM) associated with Earth's orbital cycles. Here we investigate the transient effect of insolation variations during the final part of the last glaciation and the Holocene by means of continuous climate simulations with the coupled atmosphere–sea ice–ocean column model CCAM. We show that the increased insolation during EHIM has the potential to push the Arctic Ocean sea ice cover into a regime dominated by seasonal ice, i.e. ice free summers. The strong sea ice thickness response is caused by the positive sea ice albedo feedback. Studies of the GRIP ice cores and high latitude North Atlantic sediment cores show that the Bølling–Allerød period (c. 12,700–14,700 years BP) was a climatically unstable period in the northern high latitudes and we speculate that this instability may be linked to dual stability modes of the Arctic sea ice cover characterized by e.g. transitions between periods with and without perennial sea ice cover.

    LINK

    ===

    Taylor & Francis online

    Birds and Climatic Change

    Kenneth Williamson (1975) Birds and Climatic Change, Bird Study, 22:3,143-164, DOI: 10.1080/00063657509476459

    Published online: 24 Jun 2009

    “HISTORICAL REVIEW

    Between 1000 and 1300 average summer temperatures were about 1°C higher than today, with the mean annual temperature higher by perhaps 4°C in a largely ice-free Arctic. Eric the Red, a renowned world citizen of that time, has been much maligned as the first progressive publicity man for giving Greenland a false image in order to attract settlers; but in truth, the southwest of that vast country was warmer and greener by far than at any time until the Fieldfares Turdus pilaris arrived there in the mid-1930s. The sea-temperature of the Atlantic was higher than it has been since, and there appears to have been none or very little ice to hinder the Vikings’ communications between Iceland, Greenland,Newfoundland and Labrador (Mowat 1965). Indeed Brooks (1926) considers thatthe polar ice-cap may have disappeared entirely during the summer months, tobuild anew each winter.”

    LINK

    ===

    Watts Up With That?

    NSIDC’s Dr. Walt Meier – part 2

    “Can the Arctic really become sea ice-free during summer?

    It has been suggested that the Arctic really can’t lose all its sea ice during summer because there isn’t enough energy to melt all of the ice in the short summer. There are a couple of reasons why this thinking is faulty.

    First, we know the Arctic can potentially lose all its sea ice during summer because it has done so in the past. Examination of several proxy records (e.g., sediment cores) of sea ice indicate ice-free or near ice-free summer conditions for at least some time during the period of 15,000 to 5,000 years ago (Polyak et al., 2010) when Arctic temperatures were not much warmer than today.”

    LINK

    ===

    Quaternary Science Reviews

    New insights on Arctic Quaternary climate variability from palaeo-records and numerical modelling

    December 2010

    Martin Jackobsson, et al

    Abstract

    Terrestrial and marine geological archives in the Arctic contain information on environmental change through Quaternary interglacial–glacial cycles. The Arctic Palaeoclimate and its Extremes (APEX) scientific network aims to better understand the magnitude and frequency of past Arctic climate variability, with focus on the “extreme” versus the “normal” conditions of the climate system. One important motivation for studying the amplitude of past natural environmental changes in the Arctic is to better understand the role of this region in a global perspective and provide base-line conditions against which to explore potential future changes in Arctic climate under scenarios of global warming. In this review we identify several areas that are distinct to the present programme and highlight some recent advances presented in this special issue concerning Arctic palaeo-records and natural variability, including spatial and temporal variability of the Greenland Ice Sheet, Arctic Ocean sediment stratigraphy, past ice shelves and marginal marine ice sheets, and the Cenozoic history of Arctic Ocean sea ice in general and Holocene oscillations in sea ice concentrations in particular. The combined sea ice data suggest that the seasonal Arctic sea ice cover was strongly reduced during most of the early Holocene and there appear to have been periods of ice free summers in the central Arctic Ocean. This has important consequences for our understanding of the recent trend of declining sea ice, and calls for further research on causal links between Arctic climate and sea ice.

    LINK

    ===

    Quaternary Science Review

    The dynamic Arctic

    15 May 2014

    Martin Jackobsson, et al

    Abstract

    Research campaigns over the last decade have yielded a growing stream of data that highlight the dynamic nature of Arctic cryosphere and climate change over a range of time scales. As a consequence, rather than seeing the Arctic as a near static environment in which large scale changes occur slowly, we now view the Arctic as a system that is typified by frequent, large and abrupt changes. The traditional focus on end members in the system – glacial versus interglacial periods – has been replaced by a new interest in understanding the patterns and causes of such dynamic change. Instead of interpreting changes almost exclusively as near linear responses to external forcing (e.g. orbitally-forced climate change), research is now concentrated on the importance of strong feedback mechanisms that in our palaeo-archives often border on chaotic behaviour. The last decade of research has revealed the importance of on-off switching of ice streams, strong feedbacks between sea level and ice sheets, spatial and temporal changes in ice shelves and perennial sea ice, as well as alterations in ice sheet dynamics caused by shifting centres of mass in multi-dome ice sheets. Recent advances in dating techniques and modelling have improved our understanding of leads and lags that exist in different Arctic systems, on their interactions and the driving mechanisms of change. Future Arctic research challenges include further emphases on rapid transitions and untangling the feedback mechanisms as well as the time scales they operate on.

    LINK

    ===

    The Hockey Schtick

    Paper finds Arctic sea ice extent 8,000 years ago was less than half of the 'record' low 2007 level

    Saturday, August 25, 2012

    Excerpt:

    A paper published in Science finds summer Arctic Sea Ice extent during the Holocene Thermal Maximum 8,000 years ago was "less than half of the record low 2007 level." The paper finds a "general buildup of sea ice from ~ 6,000 years before the present" which reached a maximum during the Little Ice Age and "attained its present (year 2000) extent at 4,000 years before the present.

    LINK

    ===

    Quaternary Science Reviews

    Arctic Ocean perennial sea ice breakdown during the Early Holocene Insolation Maximum (FULL ACCESS)

    15 May 2014, Pages 123-132

    Christian Stranne Martin Jakobsson GöranBjörk

    Excerpt:

    Abstract

    Arctic Ocean sea ice proxies generally suggest a reduction in sea ice during parts of the early and middle Holocene (∼6000–10,000 years BP) compared to present day conditions. This sea ice minimum has been attributed to the northern hemisphere Early Holocene Insolation Maximum (EHIM) associated with Earth's orbital cycles. Here we investigate the transient effect of insolation variations during the final part of the last glaciation and the Holocene by means of continuous climate simulations with the coupled atmosphere–sea ice–ocean column model CCAM. We show that the increased insolation during EHIM has the potential to push the Arctic Ocean sea ice cover into a regime dominated by seasonal ice, i.e. ice free summers


    LINK

    ===

    Science Daily

    Less Ice In Arctic Ocean 6000-7000 Years Ago

    Date:

    October 20, 2008

    Source: Geological Survey of Norway

    Summary:

    Recent mapping of a number of raised beach ridges on the north coast of Greenland suggests that the ice cover in the Arctic Ocean was greatly reduced some 6000-7000 years ago. The Arctic Ocean may have been periodically ice free.

    LINK


    There are more with similar outcomes.
     
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  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And that, as they say, is that.:applause:
     
  24. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, that's just false. Temperature and sea level rise were much faster at the end of each glacial period.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
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  25. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    I know you are trying to deflect from the fact that you have proved you have no understanding of the relevant science, while Jack, Tommy and I have proved we do. All you have are your appeals to authority fallacies. Sad!
     
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