How do we have a clear face on the shroud if the face is covered with another cloth? Blood stains maybe. A clear face? How would you get light and shade. You can see height and depth around the nose and eyes. If you've ever played 'blinds man's bluff' as a child you would know that the blindfold stretched across the nose leaving a gap between cheek and nose. But not on the Shroud. We have details of the nose and eyes. This could only be achieved by pressing the shroud into the shape of the face.
Mr. Scholar.. do some studying.. enter into your search engine "the face of the man in the shroud of turin" . Oddly enough, it seems what ever the form of energy that made the image on the shroud went straight up.. the other amazing thing is the 3 dimensionality of the image.. weird .. uh?
I looked into the Shroud decades ago Not convinced then. Not convinced now. There are thousands of so-called relics throughout Christendom. Even the steps up which Jesus walked to the Cross. And they're in the Vatican. They're con jobs for a gullible public. There are pieces of the cross, nails from the cross, pieces of the robe. . https://catholicexchange.com/the-origin-of-the-wood-of-the-cross Try that for all the different theories down the centuries. All completely nonsensical. There's a tree at Glastonbury that it is 'rumoured' Jesus father, Joseph, planted when he visited the UK. In the end does it really matter. That a man named Jesus existed I accept. That he was a Jewish Evangelist - A Jewish Billy Graham trying return people to god. That this Jewish preacher was crucified was not surprising. But that he supposedly rose from the dead? That hundreds of dead corpses arose from their graves and went into Jerusalem. 'The invasion of the Zombies'. I bet Tolkien got that idea for his book. It scared Pilate and Herod so much they forgot to mention it in their history. The veil of the Temple rent in twain? The sky grew dark for a period of 3 hours? Believe what you want. 3d canvas art. https://www.etsy.com/market/3d_canvas_art
science is better now than twenty years ago.. knew I could count on you to discount it out of hand,, you are reliable like that.
No "ancient" style of internment is acceptable by law today. I researched that. Seems like a violation of the 1st. Today, one must be embalmed or quickly buried or incinerated. Just an FYI
If you read the ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales you might be surprised at what you will learn. 1. Bukhari vol. 1 no. 63 = https://muflihun.com/bukhari/3/63 2. Bukhari vol 1 no. 122 = http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh2/bh2_121.htm 3. Bukhari vol 1 no. 141 = http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh2/bh2_140.htm 4. Bukhari vol IV no. 744 = https://islamicsharing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/sahih-bukhari-volume-4-book-56-number-744.jpg
The Jesus character said that if you want eternal life you have to drink his blood and eat his flesh. Would you eat that corpse?
The Brown People. North of the Sahara, Northern Africa through the M.E. Anatolia and Europe too there were early agriculture societies of Brown people. I favor the genetic mutants, Yamnaya people who were White for the genetic substitution that occurred in Europe to create a White European. White is just a mutated Brown. Not like an Asian or Sub Sahara Black. I hope that clarifies the matter to everyone's satisfactions. Once I had this Palestinian, Arab family as patients. He, She, The older son had black hair. The younger son had brown hair and I would kid some Crusader's influence. They insisted Brown Hair did occur among them. Red hair too. Although living among a Brown population, Jesus just may have been fairer in complexion, hair color, etc. as might aid a "leader". Similar to being tall. And symmetric facial features. Fairer, lighter complexion, lighter hair color is a bonus. Moi Proof: Look where he placed
Silly, silly me. I must remember not to criticise ToddWB. The fact that there is still much debate about the authenticity of the Shroud is proof enough that nothing is settled. Do you believe in the Vatican 'stairway that Jesus walked up to his crucifixion'. It's all 'genuine' we are told to believe. Do you believe in the 'house' in Bethlehem which is supposed to be the birthplace of Jesus. In the building in Jerusalem where the tomb of Jesus is supposed to be? In the Via Dolorosa (the route used by celebrants of Jesus path to Gethsemane). Incidentally, the route used today is one from the 18th century until today. Before that it had been changed several times. Apparently the soldiers escorting Jesus got lost several times. Of course, all these events create an economic boost for the area concerned. They don't have to be true. Just that people believe them. Religion is the same. The 12 disciples were able to convince enough people to start a belief. Paul followed suit. Mohammed persuaded a few people of the truth of his conversation with Gabriel. The JW's started the same . The Mormon's ditto. Some US Tv evangelists have been known to profit likewise to maintain a lavish, unquestioned and unaudited lifestyle. .science is better now than twenty years ago.. Remember that when you study the Bible. 100 years ago most Jews and most Christians accepted that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, that Joshua was responsible for the walls of Jericho falling. etc etc. Now archaeology does not prove Joshua - only that the walls of Jericho fell at a certain time. There is evidence of a Jewish invasion of Palestine. Indeed archaeology shows us that Palestine was taken over by tribes already there. Science certainly is better than 20 years ago.So are many other things. Like our understanding of the conditions, culture., history etc of the time when the Bible was written. In my lifetime scholars have come round to admitting that Luke 'screwed up' his Nativity story. That Lucifer in Isaiah was an invention of an early church father. Studying the OT Psalms and prophets together with older Ugarit 'scriptures' and writings we see a connection between them. and their ideas. Everything moves on over time. .
Mainly because the body decays quickly in the heat. Laying to rest was done quickly for the reason mentioned. Bodies could be interned in sealed caves or buried. For many after 12 months, when the flesh had decayed, the bones were removed and put in Ossaries. These could be chests, wells, or places where they would be undisturbed. Religious Jews are not cremated. It is against their beliefs. Judaism permits only burial. This comes from the Torah, where God tells Adam: “You will return to the ground, for it was from the ground that you were taken.” (Genesis 3:19) (Repeated somewhere in Deuteronomy). The body is a vehicle for the soul. In this vehicle we fulfil our purpose in life. Most burning of Jews in the OT are considered a disgrace. Usually it occurs because of sin..
There is much of the Shroud that is not debatable... It can't dismissed, and certainly not by citing inaccuracies implemented by a Roman Empress centuries after the events. The other founders of those.. some of them are Christian based heresies, did not face certain torture and death, in fact in the case of Islam, torture and death was likely if you did not adhere I had never heard that the was any consensus that Moses did not write the first five.. it is still more than likely that it was compiled from an oral history credited to Moses. Life long scholar? Too bad you lost any faith you might have had.
I don't find that to necessarily be true.. scholarship seems much of the time to confuse basic truths. It also depends very much on skills in logic and reasoning, if those are absent, education is really nothing more than indoctrination.
Look at all the scholars that tout man made climate change.. are they right? The problem with much of the scholarly opinions is they are made by humans. The truths in the Bible are basic, they are archetypes that are true.. whether or not a man specifically named Abram from Ur wandered across the ME and did all the things in the story, it is an archetype and at worse a composite of actual people and events. The Bible is NOT a history book or a science book. You'll have to excuse me, I am not a scholar, merely a student, and I do lose my patience at times explaining what I believe should be evident. Have a look at "Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus" a very compelling argument that the Exodus occurred just as outlined n the Bible.. and there is Egyptian text to backup some parts(plagues are told of)
No one really cares what you believe or what you study, no one much cares what God you pray to or even that you pray at all. However this is an internet debate forum and the religion section to boot. You come here of your own free will and engage in discussion so any frustration is your own doing. You also choose to claim truth with absolutely no verifiable data which leaves you in a losing position in debate. Those of us that require something more than the opinion you offer cannot take serious the position you take in this so you automatically fail in the debate.
The thread is supposed to be about the Bible, not Christian apologetics. I do not think there is any amount of evidence to convince those who do not want to be convinced and in reality, only come hear to attack the beliefs of Christians. Now I've given a couple of threads whereby you can examine the evidence, when you have examined them, then come back and continue the debate, but if you refuse to consider any evidence I provide, then yes , it is frustrating, and makes me question seriously why you peole post on threads such as this one.. I can't see that it for debate or seeking the truth. So make yourself approved and study the evidence I've provided.
It may help you to understand that many of us were Christians and thus know the Bible(s) pretty well and left the Church to live life free of it. You are not being attacked and the persecution complex is not only unattractive it is a common tactic used by Christians when "Debating". If you feel unfairly or in some way attacked then I apologize and will now go elsewhere for discussion. Have A Nice Day
The 1st should guarantee the Freedom of Corpse Management. Within zoning restrictions. California's San Bernardino mountains might be a good site for catacomb style internment. And what of "Native American" style. On a platform, above the ground. The Jesus style of internment was no doubt acceptable to religious Jews. Same style as Lazarus. "We" may be missing quite a market among observant Jews and uber Christians. SUPPORT THE RIGHT FOR ANCIENT STYLE CORPSE DISPOSAL! Per out First Amendment. Interested investors message / conversation Moi
How rare was "the look". Certainly more common than an albino. Judas' betrayal or role in the Passover Plot was to give the location, not the description. Hazy here, wasn't the betrayal to "the Priests" or "a Priest" for 30 pieces of silver and not to the Romans Judas
