The Bible is a Book of Fairy Tales

The article I cited suggested a flood between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea.

 

If you believe in Noah's flood then you have to believe in everything else = talking serpents, talking donkeys, unicorns, satyrs, zombies, the cure for leprosy, demons, slavery, stars falling to the Earth, and countless other things.

 

The guy who wrote the account of the flood was probably the same guy who wrote Jeremiah 46:7-9 (NLT) =

"7 “Who is this, rising like the Nile at floodtime,
overflowing all the land?
8 It is the Egyptian army,
overflowing all the land,
boasting that it will cover the earth like a flood,
destroying cities and their people.
9 Charge, you horses and chariots;
attack, you mighty warriors of Egypt!
Come, all you allies from Ethiopia, Libya, and Lydia
who are skilled with the shield and bow!"

 

I believe what you are referring to was the rise in sea level that created the black sea.
That was a big flood but, certainly not a global flood as described in Genesis.

 

Noah's flood fits into the period when the Egyptians ruled the Levant and their displacement by the Assyrians. It's just a war story.

 

So here is the point... and you shouldn't answer a matter before you hear it:

A mortal man is inspired by God to write. He is still a mortal man. We know the flood occurred and that it flooded out the Tarim Basin. The Chinese accurately recorded the event. But, how many people writing about the flood actually met the Chinese?

The writers could only give their human experience in written form. They did not have planes, trains or automobiles. They had no satellites nor did they know of life thousands of miles away.

It wasn't until Magellan that it was proven, conclusively, that the world is round.

 

There was no global flood in China either. The Tarim Basin was a some point a lake. Now there is a huge underground aquifer the size of all the great lakes combined.

 

The Flood story is a rehash of Sumerian and near east creation myth.

 

Is it really that difficult for you to imagine that to the authors of the flood stories, such catastrophic flooding did indeed appear to cover the entire world? It appears you are being deliberately obtuse or just argumentative. The point of the story has nothing to do with science.

 

You are the one being obtuse. If you want to claim the flood story was "allegory" not meant to be taken literally ... then just state this. I am completely ok with this claim.

What I have been arguing is that it is abject nonsense to take the Genesis flood story literally (every land creature killed ... and so on).

Clearly you agree with this premise so we are on the same page.

The Genesis story in the Bible (written around 500 BC) was not written until long after the flood that created the Baltic Sea. The Genesis story is based on the Sumerian and near east creation stories that date back to at least 2000 BC.

The Genesis story is adoption and retelling of much older creation myth. This makes perfect sense given that the Israelite's believe in the Sumerian/Near East Pantheon/Divine Council of Gods.

The head of the council was El (Enlil, Ellil, Elyon) - Chief God (the Father, Creator and so on) of the Sumerian pantheon.

Abraham was from Ur - a Sumerian/Babylonian town. The name of his God was El Shaddai (Canaanite God of the Mountain) which was synonymous with El.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

I gave you this link because the El - Abraham connection is now so well established and accepted that it is what we find in encyclopedia's

El was still a primary figure in the Israelite pantheon during the time of Moses. This did not make the Israelite's polytheists as they only worshiped YHWH. YHWH was the God of the Israelite's. YHWH was one of El's sons as stated in Deuteronomy and Psalms.

The original God of the creation story and flood is El.

 

Do you trust Magellan more than you trust the Americans in Zion City? https://www.pinterest.com/pin/195554808795667448/

 

It could be a lot of things but when considered in the light of the biblical stories and history it's more likely to have its basis in the ebb and flow of the Egyptian Empire in the Levant. It ties into the passage from Jeremiah 46:7-9 and some other passages about the rise and fall of ancient empires in that area. One thing is 100% positive and that is there was no actual water involved. Remember, the various civilzations existed at the same time Adam and Eve were running around naked and they existed after Noah's flood but that's when Assyria rose to power under Nimrod.

 

"The Genesis story in the Bible (written around 500 BC) was not written until long after the flood that created the Baltic Sea."

The Baltic Sea? I think you made a very big typo. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TcY34b1G86Q/TkzijLFY2pI/AAAAAAAADpI/rt_fKFCrBQw/s1600/baltic-sea-map.jpg

 

Have no idea what that means. Stop being so cryptic. It shows you don't have much of a case on this.

 

In Post #781 you wrote:
"It wasn't until Magellan that it was proven, conclusively, that the world is round."

So I posted a billboard from Zion City, Illinois, from the last century that shows that they never got Magellan's memo on the shape of the world or if they did, they didn't believe him. Therefore his proof wasn't conclusive, at least for them.

 

You don't have a genuine position?: You think if you can demean the rest of the posters, it will make you right. Your trolling does not merit any serious response.

Let's just say you're wrong and won't ever settle on a starting point from which both sides can find a common ground beginning point.

You're the third best on this board at trolling, but you ARE NOT RIGHT.

 

Your naivete is exceeded only by your condescension and ignorance.


“Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith. Wonderful things in both science and religion come from our efforts based on observations, thoughtful assumptions, faith and logic. (With the findings of modern physics, it) seems extremely unlikely (that the existence of life and humanity are ) just accidental.” – Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate and Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind.” ― Max Planck


For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been waiting there for centuries. - Robert Jastrow

 

With each passing decade, various disciplines of enlightenment, call it "science" if you like, find ever more evidence for our Creator, as described in the Holy Bible. I can't speak for Christians who believe in "only the Bible as the proof of God's existence," but I'm pretty sure that they are in the minority. Well educated and well read people can't help but to know of modern findings which contradict the nonsense of a self-creating universe and panoply of over a million life forms.

The hateful intolerance of atheists is terribly unintelligent and anti-scientific. Take Richard Dawkins, please.
His book, The God Delusion, moved one of his atheist colleagues to distance himself from Dawkins: "It makes me embarrassed to be an atheist."

 

Argggg .. you are correct .. I meant the Black Sea. Thanks for catching that one.

 

Typos are fun. It shows that people are reading what you write.

 

I do not think that science in general posit's a "self creating" universe - as in something coming from nothing although this is a general misconception. For example, the big bang theory does not state that nothing existed prior to the big bang.

The question then is really in how one define's God. There are forces that shaped the universe and created life. This force can be defined as God. The question is then whether or not this force is self aware.

Religious belief posits that this force is self aware - that the energy of creation knows of its own existence.

 

RE: The Bible is a Book of Fairy Tales
※→ Giftedone, ChemEngineer, et al,

This discussion, like so many discussions before it, has entangled itself (Faith Based Religious Dogma 'vs' Science and Philosophical Evidence).

• A Deity (The Ultimate Cosmic Creator and Supreme Being) was responsible for the spark that stimulated the initial conditions for the Creation of life.
• Science does not handle a definitively answer the question either way.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

Professor Schawlow appears to disagree with you. So do I and many, many others. See also Anthropic Principle.

“It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious. I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life.” – Arthur L. Schawlow, Professor of Physics, Stanford University, Nobel Laureate


“Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith. Wonderful things in both science and religion come from our efforts based on observations, thoughtful assumptions, faith and logic. (With the findings of modern physics, it) seems extremely unlikely (that the existence of life and humanity are ) just accidental.” – Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate and Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind.” ― Max Planck

For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been waiting there for centuries. - Robert Jastrow

 

RE: The Bible is a Book of Fairy Tales
※→ ChemEngineer, et al,

Oh, there is absolutely no question that there are many brilliant minds that think differently → then me.

(COMMENT)

Whether we think in terms of a "belief system," or in terms of "empirical evidence," there is no definitive answer.

• "answers are religious"
• "science and religion come from our efforts"
• "he is greeted by a band of theologians"
​

If there is one Supreme Being or a Universal Cosmic Creator, or multiple deities that rule the universe, there is no real way to settle (once and for all) the argument; at least NOT in my lifetime.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

There is a way for you to settle it once and for all, personally. It's extremely important that you do just that.
Once and for all. IN your lifetime.

The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, former atheist
The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel
The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict - Josh McDowell
Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis, Oxford professor and former atheist who sought to PROVE there is no God

"Wisdom exceedeth folly as far as light exceedeth darkness."