The Bible says abortion is NOT murder.

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Ronstar, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ya, so? If someone keeps screaming, abortion is "MURDER" then they should call the police.....why wouldn't they?

    Says who? ...and life isn't a game.....


    So what? You want to punish children for what their parents did?

    BTW, through no fault of their own people who lost their jobs lost their homes and became homeless....they are not "welfare pukes" they are human beings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113

    "Murder " is a legal term......change the law if you don't like it....it means something different than "kill"....you're correct, they all mean something different and killing a fetus is not "murdering" a fetus.
     
  3. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    49,909
    Likes Received:
    5,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They are brain dead until at least week 21
     
  4. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think that awareness should be the measure of development rather than the level of brain activity, and submit that awareness begins at around age 6 months to a year old.
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113


    No matter what the brain is doing a fetus isn't viable until 23 weeks, that's the legal limit and since most abortions are done before that everything is fine...
     
  6. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    49,909
    Likes Received:
    5,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're certainly welcome to that opinion
     
  7. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Actually, the early Christian church made it a sin for a Christian to hold another Christian as a slave (that's the entire point of Paul's letter to Philemon). That quickly expanded to viewing slavery (as the modern Western world understands slavery) as a sin but in a time when slavery was a normal part of life it was a difficult change to actually imple,enmt.
     
  8. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    God DOES it all the time...


    According to national estimates, roughly 15 to 20 percent of all pregnancies in the United States end in miscarriage
     
    Sallyally and FoxHastings like this.
  9. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    SCOTUS reviewed historical views, including historical Christian views, prior to ruling on Roe v Wade.
     
  10. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Slavery was a "normal part of life" because man-made religions and gods made it so.

    Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

    1 Timothy 6:1-2 Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

    Neither Jesus nor Paul outright condemn slavery, and Jesus as Yahweh also failed to condemn slavery. In fact, Jesus codified slavery in the Law and elsewhere such as

    Exodus 21:20-21 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.”

    Leviticus 25:44-46 Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever.”

    Benevolent "gods" don't do slavery, and the gods of the Old and New Testaments are not moral superiors.
     
  11. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except for partial-birth abortions. Explain why we can't abort the "Homeless" who are not viable. We can put an inflatable pocket vagina over their heads, crush their skulls, vacuum out the brains and be that much better off as a Society, right?

    What happens when science makes the fetus viable at 14-16 weeks?
     
  12. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    49,909
    Likes Received:
    5,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You do not get the medical definition of viable
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  13. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's premeditated and it's done for personal profit or gain, the fact that it is currently legal and acceptable does not make it morally correct.
     
  14. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Messages:
    49,909
    Likes Received:
    5,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah it just happens to be morally correct
     
  15. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Slavery was legal, too, at one time. That doesn't make it morally correct.

    Whether or not Life is a game is a matter of perception.

    No, my preference would be to place the children in an orphanage or foster care or adoptive services.

    They are not viable outside the womb, which is all that really matters, right?
     
  16. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,248
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First, in the ancient world there are multiple types of slavery, not just the slavery that comes to mind for modern Westerners. That type of slavery did occur, but the ancient world worked off of manual labor, tradesmen and farmers were too valuable to kill and abuse.

    Some slavery was voluntary, a type of indentured servitude. In some cultures (including the Jewish culture), a person could work off a debt by becoming a "slave", but the person in that condition was treated as a member of the household and could not be abused, and had legal recourse if he/she were abused.

    When a city was captured and the people put in "slavery", that often meant they worked for the new ruler just as they had worked for the old ruler, a type of change-the-badge but the job stays the same. Sometimes all the people (particularly people who would be useful in a rebellion, such as metal workers) were moved to a new location, usually to the conquerors home territory, as a means of pacifying people - but they still had homes, family, food, often freedom of religion, life went on as long as they did not incite rebellion.

    The brightest were often brought to the capital and taught the conquerors language and laws, they became translators, scribes, lawyers, administrators, bureaucrats. Daniel and his 3 friends (from the Bible) were brought to Babylon, taught, served in the Babylonian Kings court, and Daniel rose to become 2nd only to the Babylonian king himself.

    <>

    Exodus and Leviticus are Old Testament, I wrote that Christianity (New Testament) was against slavery as modern Westerners understand slavery.

    <>

    Ephesians (Paul) and Timothy do not approve of slavery. The world was slave owning, Paul and Timothy were stating that a person should do the best they can in whatever condition they are in, Christians in slavery should follow Jesus teachings because their behavior reflects on Jesus and Christianity. Paul clearly in his letter to Philemon (who owned Onesimus as a slave as property and could abuse him) stated that Christians should not hold other Christians in slavery.
     
  17. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    You're only basing that assumption on a couple of Old Testament verses mate.
    To balance them out, here are a couple of other Old T verses which indicate life in the womb is precious..:)-
    "Children are a heritage of the Lord,and the fruit of the womb is his reward" (Psalm 127:3)
    And God is working there-
    God said- "Before I formed you in the womb,I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5)

    PS- my parents had a shotgun wedding 60-odd years ago because my mother was preggers with me out of wedlock, which was a heinous social crime in those days. She chose not to have me aborted, but other women in the same boat often had abortions, and friends and neighbours would think "It was for the best you know", and wouldn't have minded.
    But as the fetus in question, I might have minded..:)


     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  18. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,360
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Homeless people are quite viable outside the womb, they are simply homeless.
     
  19. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,360
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Psalms are humans speaking to God not God to humans and not every child is Jeremiah.
     
    MissingMayor likes this.
  20. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    1- The psalmists could sense that fetuses are precious in God's eyes, yet you seem to sense that they're not precious, so who's right, you or them?..;)
    2- Jeremiah was as human as the rest of us, he actually tried to talk his way out of the job of prophet- "Lord I'm too young and nobody will listen to me" (Jer 1:6)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  21. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113

    What a garbled hyperbolic mess of a post :roflol:


    Partial birth abortions are done to save the life of the woman (you're against that) and/or because of fetal disease or malformation.
    YOU seem to think that's the only kind, I suggest you read up on abortion...


    The homeless aren't "viable" LOL! You don't know what viable means...!!!!!


    DO tell how science will fast forward the development of the fetus....it hasn't changed in 10,000 years.

    BTW, IF they are able to take out the developing fetus and grow it themselves are YOU going to pay for the medical bills??? They will be quite astounding...
     
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Your morals aren't everyone's and that's why law isn't based on morals...why don't you worry about your own morals and leave others alone??
     
  23. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Morals have nothing to do with laws...and that is one weird response to """"Ya, so? If someone keeps screaming, abortion is "MURDER" then they should call the police.....why wouldn't they?"""



    Fine, keep your perception to yourself , don't try to foist it on others.







    Oh? Would your "preference" also include YOU adopting some of these children?

    How CRUEL to wish children be given up for adoption...do you know how many kids are in the system( those Pro-"Lifers " haven't adopted them )

    ..AND NO woman is obliged to give up 9 months of her life, suffer temporary and permanent effects of pregnancy, suffer financial/educational/career setbacks, have to take time off work, jeopardize her career and possibly lose her job so you can watch another kid be put into the system and feel all warm and fuzzy?

    NO , most women aren't that stupid.






    The homeless aren't viable outside the womb ? What!? PLEASE look up the word viable, you haven't a clue...
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113

    No, you couldn't have minded if you never existed....
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113



    Slavery is trying to make women give birth by passing laws that make abortion illegal...that would make women nothing more than slaves...
     

Share This Page