The Bible

You think that they are under the impression that it is made up? Surely you can't be serious!

 

Geez. Ever heard of an "ANALOGY?" Me having faith that I am saved is NO DIFFERENT to you have faith that your family loves you. You cannot physically SEE their love towards you! However, you wouldn't say that you NEED to physically see it!

Do you think that the "hypocrites" that Jesus refers to are hypocrites BECAUSE of the way that they pray?

 

Well then if there's no specific number, then how the hell can you proclaim that "not all those who believe in God do good works?" By what measure do they not do good works?

Of course doing the "will of the Father" requires something! Christians will do the will of the Father by doing good works!

Earlier you referred to The Beatitudes. Here's the thing about The Beatitudes. They are referring to people who are saved. The poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart, the peacemakers and those who are persecuted because of righteousness all describe what a Christian is. And theirs is the kingdom of heaven!

Why do you think that Jesus didn't think much of the Pharisees? Do you think it was because they didn't do good works?

Unbelievable! I have repeatedly said that works are NOT required! You're not reading my posts properly! AGAIN, I said, "faith gets one into heaven. That comes FIRST! After this, wanting to do good
works will follow." I also said that good works, "don't NEED to be required, because those who are saved by faith will WANT to do them anyway!" Try to read my post properly this time!

 

Seems pretty clear - regardless of what secret rituals were being performed - that he is not a fan of making a public show of one's religious beliefs - like Timmy.

 

Buddha was just a man but many follow his teachings... same with Confucius. Wisdom is wisdom.

One does not have to believe in God to follow wise teachings - such as the teachings of Jesus.

 

Atheists?

 

Once again you have managed to completely avoid addressing your rabid contradiction by deflecting to some cherry picked sentence and blubbering mindless out of context gibberish.

It is not that your analogy is problematic .. the problem is that your analogy has nothing to do with your rabid contradiction. So what if you having faith in God is like someone having faith that their family loves them ?

How does that relate to - or resolve the fact that you agreed that the entrance into heaven is via works - as per the Jesus of Matt - and then turn around and claim that entrance to heaven in not through works

Obviously - Jesus says this directly - not only how they pray "babbling like pagans" but where they pray.

 

This is getting too stupid for words to describe. What part of "good works" are not just doing positive things - but avoiding doing negative things .. did you not understand ?

Hitler engaging in mass slaughter is an example of not doing good works - not following the teachings of Jesus.

Many of those who believe in God do not follow many of the teachings of Jesus - including some of the most important ones.

 

Most of those who follow Confucius are Atheists ... and Buddhists do not believe in a personal God.

Regardless .. one does not have to believe in the Buddha or God to follow some of the teachings of Buddha. You have a great deal of trouble understanding rather simple concepts.

 

Alright fine, by what measure do they avoid doing negative things? If there's "no specific number of good vs bad deeds given", then how the hell can you proclaim that they avoid doing negative things?

 

Why the hell would atheists care about anything that Jesus has to say? Have you MET an atheist?

What's your point?

 

I'm not replying to Wyrd to save his mortal intellect from the traps of conspiracy theories. I'm merely trying to uncover the deep-seated hatred and mistrust behind such theories. Eastern Orthodoxy heritage, perhaps. Russian or Greek.

I've already come across this weird atheist belief that Jews have created Christianity in order to be able to manipulate humanity and rule over the world from the shadows. Seems like Wyrd is a believer.

 

Who is "they" ? I never proclaimed that believers avoid doing negative things. I said that some believers do negative things = not following the teachings of Jesus = not doing good works.

What part of the Hitler example did you not understand ?

The measure is the teachings of Jesus... such as - "do not murder" If one is murdering people - or condoning the murder of people - one is not following the teachings of Jesus = not doing good works.

 

Correction: By what measure do they avoid doing POSITIVE things? If there's "no specific number of good vs bad deeds given", then how the hell can you proclaim that they avoid doing POSITIVE things?

 

Religions are the result of millennia of human spirituality, incorporating knowledge and fantasy, science and obscurantism, morality and vicious violence, wisdom and prejudices, sound reason and blind faith. It's worth doing things SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE Jesus said to do them since those things, even though in religious writings, summarize wisdom accumulated during millennia of human existence.

The non-militant atheist point of view

 

And this applies to you?

 

Of course. I'm an atheist, always was.

 

I mean as in do you do these things, "SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE Jesus said to do them since those things, even though in religious writings, summarize wisdom accumulated during millennia of human existence?"

 

Yes. I grew up in a mostly Christian country, read books written by Christians, including the Christian Bible. I've also read Greek and Hindu myths, but Jesus' teachings have always seemed to me more suitable by modern standards. I can understand the appeal Christianity has for believers. Doing what Jesus teaches certainly makes people feel good about themselves, as long as it's done naturally, without compulsion.

 

What's your problem? I'm agnostic. I've probably met more athiests in my 79 years than you've had hot dinners.

An athiest may easily accept SOME of the teachings of Jesus without accepting the Christian beliefs. As they may accept SOME of the teachings of Buddha or other wise men. You don't have to be any Theist to see wisdom in any teaching - religious or secular.

You do realise Jesus was merely taking OT Scriptures and using them for the time. So how can they apply just to Christians?

The first four Beatitudes relate to God, and the last four relate to people. His third blessing, “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth,” is nearly a quotation of Psalm 37:11, “The humble will inherit the land.” The entire passage has echoes of Isaiah 61:1-9, a passage that Jesus read when he started his ministry at Nazareth (see Luke 4:16-21). Like the Beatitudes of Jesus, Isaiah 61 mentions good news for the poor (v. 1), comfort for those who mourn (v. 2), possession of the land by the downtrodden (v. 7), and the passage ends with how “they are a people the Lord has blessed” (v. 9).

Your quote. What's your point? That's simply my point. Jesus used the OT time and again. Just as Judaism adapted earlier teachings, Christianity adapted Judaism, as did Mohammed
Who knows what the original religious beliefs were - except that there was a 'god'. Each succeeding civilisation has built upon it predecessor. And that has happened to isolated early civilisations.

 

This is such a dumb question - given this has been explained to you numerous times already. It is called pursuit of knowledge.

Just because someone is a Christian - does not mean they do not care about what non Christians have to say.
Just because someone is an atheist - does not mean they do not care about what those who believe in God say. They may not be interested in what a Christian has to say about God ... but those who believe in God do not always talk about God.

 

I did not claim they avoided doing positive things. You have serious reading comprehension issues ... and what on earth are you correcting ?

You seem to have no ability to comprehend the difference between doing a good thing - such as helping the poor - and doing a bad thing such as killing someone.

One should try to avoid the bad things - and try to do good things. In terms of number - one should try to avoid doing as many bad things as they can. One should not intentionally do evil. If one wishes to enter the pearly gates - one should not do the things that Jesus tells you to not to do.

 

Good works cannot get you into heaven. While good works are to be admired, they are not something required in order to be saved.
Placing too great an emphasis on good works negates the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ. Jesus took on our sins and died in full payment for them. The only thing necessary to be saved is faith. As Saint Paul says over and over, man is saved by faith alone. Saint James, in his epistle says we should do good works. He does not say we should do good works as some sort of help in getting into heaven but because, being saved, we want to do good works.
Regarding good works by non-Christians, they are valid. Again referring to Saint Paul and paraphrasing what he writes in his letter to the Romans, even Gentiles have the law in their hearts. In other words, doing good is inherent in people. Christians have no monopoly on good deeds just as they and/or non-Christians do not have s monopoly on bad deeds.
Our deeds are the result of our human nature and play no part in salvation. We are save SOLA FIDE, by faith alone.

 

Here is the bottom line: you can't produce a legitimate original copy of the Bible written before the 680s-690s.

 

What's an original copy?

I can't produce a live dinosaur either, does that mean dinosaurs didn't exist?

I can't produce a visible electron, does that mean electrons don't exist?

How do we know about dinosaurs and electrons?