The city where addicts are allowed to inject:

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Noserose, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ibuprofen I've found to be an excellent anti inflammatory, but not so great an analgesic. Everyones different I suppose. When I get out of a serious surgery I go for pethidine in the hospital and oxy or codeine out of it.

    I have had some... uncomfortable surgeries. When you have a tube up your freshly sliced open urethra you sort of demand the best :icon_jawdrop: :chainsaw:
     
  2. bigfella

    bigfella Active Member

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    For me I found that ibuprofen dealt with the 'sharp' pain in the 12-24 hours after tooth extraction. Opioids certainly helped, but not as much. They also left me feeling a bit drowsy, but not enough to get decent sleep (which the ibuprofen did help with).

    Don't much like the sound of those surgeries.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Back in the 60s when I worked in a drug store as a pharmacist assistant, in the days before Oxy and other opioids, the standard fare for post dental work pain was Empirin #3, which I think was aspirin, phenacetin and caffeine, along with half grain of codeine. It seemed to work fine for people. #4 included a full grain of codeine, but #3 was much more commonly used, and not just for dental procedures.

    It does not appear to me that the arrival of Oxy and the opioids have brought anything but bad news for society and many patients.
     
  4. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Back in the day we used to hammer in braces without anaesthetic. If we find a better way of doing things we adapt.

    It is not the role of a doctor to baby you. Their role is to relieve your pain to a reasonable standard.
     
  5. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I do understand your point, and for the most part agree.

    My point is a question: are we in society allowed to ask "at what price?"

    Are we allowed to evaluate, to conduct a cost/benefit analysis regarding the efficacy and unintended consequences of the engineered opioids?

    If we are, it seems obvious to me (having taken both classes of drugs) that the benefit to the Oxy class drugs is subjective and small, even as the unintended consequences to society are quite harmful.
     
  6. Jack Links

    Jack Links Active Member

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    It's all mental!!
    There are more problems b/c people have been PROGRAMMED TO BELIEVE THE LIES!! It's a scam. Same thing with cigarettes. What's the narrative on that? Nicotine is as addictive as heroine!! You can't quit on your own!! I quit, b/c I didn't believe the lies. Look at who stands to benefit? The government has levied a heavy tax on cigarettes. Drug companies that make stop smoking aids benefit from it. Vape makers benefit from it.
    Peoples' systems are different. Some drugs work better on certain patients than others. Patients should have the option of choosing their own medicines.
     
  7. Jack Links

    Jack Links Active Member

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    It's all mental!!
    There are more problems b/c people have been PROGRAMMED TO BELIEVE THE LIES!! It's a scam. Same thing with cigarettes. What's the narrative on that? Nicotine is as addictive as heroine!! You can't quit on your own!! I quit, b/c I didn't believe the lies. Look at who stands to benefit? The government has levied a heavy tax on cigarettes. Drug companies that make stop smoking aids benefit from it. Vape makers benefit from it.
    What do you think would happen if the public were told that quitting was easy? After repeated programming, there would be more people quitting, don't you think?
     
  8. Jack Links

    Jack Links Active Member

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    You're ignorance is showing. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole, dontcha?
    *sigh* Guess I'll have to spell it out for ya.
    They have RE-CLASSIFIED the narcotic AND non narcotic drugs and lumped them into the same category. Re-naming it doesn't change the composition of the drug! You must be a liberal. Logic does not apply to them at all.
     
  9. Mackithius

    Mackithius Active Member

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    Unequivocally that's true. Addiction is mostly mental, and literally anyone can kick a habit with enough constitution.

    Cigarettes, weed and the like aren't that difficult. A component that's often overlooked is the habitual behavior that contributes to addiction. But I regret to inform you irreversible chemical and rewriting of the brain occur with heroine. Many studies, brain mapping and EEG analysis have concluded these hard drugs, the addiction is far from solely psychological.

    This is why the relapse rate on heroine addicts is so high. It's a constant fight every day. I've never done it and don't wish to, but I absolutely refuse to trivialize what those people are up against. A lot of data shows their dependency is a very real physiology.

    So while I do agree anyone can win with enough willpower, a lot of addicts are dealing with real physical dependency. I'm assuming you've never seen an alcoholic detox before. It can be so bad, they may need to be intubated and put in a coma to get through it.

    I know these drugs very well from a professional standpoint. Willpower is a powerful thing, and the media doesn't help saying people are hopeless. But you are very wrong saying addiction is purely a psychological mechanism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017 at 8:19 PM
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The war on drugs has also been instrumental in increasing the power of Gov't and Police while stripping away individual liberties. Fallacious utilitarianism (which has no consideration for individual rights and freedoms) has reached plague proportions and is used to over-ride the constitution and principles on which this nation was funded. "if it saves one life"/harm reduction are often heard justifications to violate the rule of law. Forfeiture laws violate "innocent until proven guilty" and punishing one person for the crime of another. Arbitrary search and seizure, due process and privacy rights have gone the way of the dinosaur.

    Monitoring of banking and transactions are part of the Orwellian surveillance state. The move towards a "cashless society" will exacerbate this problem.
     
  11. Jack Links

    Jack Links Active Member

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    It was not my intention to lessen the severity of heroine addiction. The 'experts' claim nicotine is as addictive and hard to quit as heroine. Since your statement comes from professional experience, it's more evidence that they are liars when it comes to drugs. When I hear anything from the msm about drugs, I automatically assume it's a lie, because it probably is.
     
  12. Ninian

    Ninian Well-Known Member

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    Well. Seems we're going in same direction - I keep getting these Hydra drug dealer ads on Youtube.


    Couple weeks ago there was cocaine advertising from same Hydra thing. People around pretty much shocked by how these фвы even make it on YouTube.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017 at 8:55 AM
  13. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's probably a 50-50 chance of the entity selling the drugs online are DEA, if they are illegal drugs. :-|
     
  14. Mackithius

    Mackithius Active Member

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    The MSM lies all the time about drugs. You know what else that fits a high addiction profile like heroine or cigarettes? Sugar....

    TBH with how strict the FDA is about substances, I'm surprised that this substance isn't being regulated. The macroscopic implications and health care costs of high sugar diet in the USA is MASSIVE. It's by far the #1 problem. #2 I'd say is smoking. Want to know why they haven't done anything about it? Probably lobbyists in Washington.

    Making drugs illegal and high sugar containing compounds legal, AND CHEAP, statistically makes zero sense. But whatever, this country is backwards. "Land of the free..." my ***. Largest non-violent prison population per capita in the world.

    The MSM sucks. I can't tell you how many times I get asked about "the Michael Jackson drug," propofol. "Are you going to give me that?" Yeah.. or "fentanyl." "But those drugs kill people!" Yes, yes they can, but the safety profile is very very good, when you have a liscensed anesthesia provider watching you. People are horribly misinformed. And really it's like children... that's how the general populace is. They believe what they're told. And most of what they're told is sensationalism and half-truths.

    But drugs need to be decriminalized. Addiction should be treated as a MEDICAL problem. Because that's what it is. The war on drugs has got to be one of the worst mistakes in this country's history. Right up there with slavery.
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  15. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting concept!

    Now, our über-liberal friends to the North need to have provide clinics where people can just go in and die... That's right -- just go in and say, "Ya know, I'm worthless, rotten, and totally ruined. So, just kill me!" And after they sign a legal release form, they can inject themselves with a painless suicide drug (provided, of course, at government expense), or have the clinic staff do it for them. This would help Canada (and other countries) go a LONG way toward getting the SH*T out of their societies.... :twisted:
     
  16. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member

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    Yep won't be long know before common sense euthenasia laws are enacted in Canada.

    What would help your country go a long way to getting the crap out your society? Smaller portion sizes? Debtors prisons?
     
  17. Jack Links

    Jack Links Active Member

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    Excess sugar can be bad, no doubt. Corn syrup is the worst. This is more due to habit and lack of knowledge. But, people do have choices. They're just too lazy to do the research for themselves, so they rely on political party or media to tell them what to think.
    Fact is, portion sizes have gotten larger. McDonalds adult meal used to be what is now a regular burger, small fries, and small coke. Granted, restaurants push for larger portion b/c fat people consume more food. But it is STILL YOUR choice as a consumer. No one is forcing anyone to consume a gallon of coke or a 1000 calorie meal. I'm a little overweight myself, so I've changed my eating habits. If I eat out, I have a burger without any side orders. If I have a sugary coke, I treat that as the desert. Coca-Cola stated publicly that it is peoples' choices. Calories in, calories burned. That is the truth . Simple formula. Of course, the media blasted them for it as if they are 'uncaring'. Fact is, they offer smaller portion drinks 7.5 oz. That was NOT mentioned by the media.
    I put 1/3 cup of sugar to a gallon of tea.
    If a person learn to make their own choices, they become much more confident about themselves, instead of being told they are 'victims' all of the time.
     
  18. Mackithius

    Mackithius Active Member

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    It's people's choice to do drugs also. They've done studies, brain imaging to show sugar has about the same addiction profile as cocaine. Just like cocaine, you can spend yourself into oblivion.

    If there's one thing I don't understand about the public, is that they selectively support the banning of substances. We know outright, people make stupid, impulsive decisions. People are just stupid, myself included. But at least I acknowledge it, and don't imply a supremacy about myself. It is why I advocate for decriminalization of drugs. Some chose those vices. Why should I hold that against them? Society would be better off not with more perfect members, but a better attitude about other's imperfections.

    Corn syrup may be worse than sugar. I don't know that data. The high sugar compounds are very much the worst part about our health problems in this country, any way you cut it. It's all about choices. And really what society deserves is a government that regulates the food and calorie counts too. Because most are ungrateful, small minded hypocrites. And if they want to be healthy and safe from compounds, their choices should be limited to healthy ones only.

    Freedom comes with all shades of ugly.
     
  19. Jack Links

    Jack Links Active Member

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    No, it is not the government's responsibility to regulate choices. A free society allows the people to do that for themselves. It's a matter of conditioning. People have been conditioned to be victims, as if they have no choice in the matter, and the 'good' government will do that for them.
    People can be conditioned to believe they have the power to make their own choices and can do that wisely.
    Two schools of thought here. One that makes citizens helpless victims that needs others to make their decisions for them. The other empowers people to make their own choices. Now which one do you think will instill self confidence and a can do attitude?
     
  20. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, Jonsa, something as elementary as COMMON SENSE might really be the answer to the problems of idiots getting themselves addicted to drugs, stuffing themselves into obesity with enormous portions of food, and, mindlessly plunging into catastrophic levels of debt! :omg:

    Still, it remains true that although "you can lead a horse to water, you can't make the poor, dumb, son-of-a-bitch DRINK!"
     

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