The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Guno, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Science
    No
    No relevance to a global flood as written in the Bible.
     
  2. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (my emphasis)
    GodAlmighty! You make it sound like some PhD at Harvard wrote the article. Harvard.edu links to a Digital Library portal containing more than 12.7 million records.

    Also, it's not a book, it's an article. Did you notice the disclaimer from the Editor at the beginning of the article? Did you notice the Editor did not find it necessary to include a disclaimer for the previous article?

    Are you really that far lost in woo-wonder that you don't understand what an e-library is?
    Are you really that far lost in woo-wonder that you don't understand that your article is one of hundreds that discuss meteor and comet impacts?

    I have to ask how you found this particular link. I'm quite sure you didn't go to an archive, read all the articles and find one that references the Great Flood. So, probably you just followed a link provided by a woo master. Care to confirm or deny.

     
  3. OhZone

    OhZone Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Why do you instantly believe the info on sitchin is wrong?
    I saw that a long time ago. Can't totally dismiss what he is saying, but can't buy it either. Sitchin put together a story that makes sense. Accurate or not, it does explain a few things and has brought the subject into the light so that other researchers are now looking into it. Many of them agree with him.

    Why are you so sure that there were not "aliens"? In your opinion what purpose did the Nazca lines serve? They make no sense at all looking at them on their level.

    If you did a little more unprejudiced research you will learn a lot. Anomalies are my special interest.

    I don't have much faith in Wiki. The people who post there are not experts, they are ordinary folks who have read a few books.

    You have been hearing woo stories longer than I have been alive?
    That's a rich one. hahahahaha.

    What will you think when you find out that Atlantis isn't a myth? What if there was a cosmic catastrophe and the magnetic conflict with Earth caused an Earthly upheaval? How is it that there are remains of sea life are found on mountain sides?
    The Guanches were probably the survivors of Atlantis.
    Here's a site for you.....http://burlingtonnews.net/

    All this brings us back to the folk tales of "floods". To them it looked like the whole Earth was flooded. The Fundies of course really believe that. Their holy book tells them so.

    The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. F. Scott Fitzgerald
     
  4. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Instantly Believe? Judge immediately? I've been hearing woo stories for probably longer than you are alive. Do I really have to investigate each and every one? I don't have to pick up every plop of dog poo to know how the next one is going to smell.

    Nevertheless, I did take to time to look into your claims. Here is what I found...
    Neither you nor the authors could show any connection between Sumarian writings and the "chart". You just took them at their word.
    Scanning translations of Sumarian writings at http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/# indicated nothing along the lines of your authors viewpoints. Since you did not know translations were available, it's obvious you did not do any research to look for information opposing your views.
    Wiki articles contained nothing to support your authors viewpoints.
    The article at http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/ confirmed my initial immediate judgement: WOO.



    Name a couple of researchers that are not connected to the WOO industry. The article you linked to, which you falsely attributed to Harvard " (ooh and it's from Harvard.edu - do you consider them "woo folk" too?)" even came with a disclaimer.

    Critical thinking: Aliens create spaceships capable of travelling light distances. I think they have the technology to land wherever they want to without the need for natives to scratch lines in the sand. Are you not aware SpaceX can return from orbit and land on a big X.

    I looked at Nazca lines many years ago. It was dismissed then. It is dismissed now. See paragraph above labelled Critical thinking.

    Wiki was not the only source I cited. Maybe you should read some books that are written by scientists, not by woo-ers

    Well, if you are that old, and you still have not developed critical thinking, then you never will.

    Actually I'm through following your blind links. You'll just dismiss my rebuttals and post another blind link. Show me evidence that the Sumarians created your sky chart. Note: evidence does not include unsubstantiated comments from woo authors. Show where any of them actually reference Sumarian writing other than saying they did.

    You are just as bad as they are. You both believe in what people wrote without careful examination of what they are saying.

    That's not the same thing you said earlier. You said you can believe in two opposing views.
     
  5. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I had walked away from the computer for a while, but your above comment kept resonating in my brain.

    You mock Fundies for believing in the Flood. They believe this because they believe their holy book is the Word of God. A god they deeply believe in.

    You believe in things like the meaning of the Nazca lines and Sumarian skycharts. What are your beliefs based on?

    The writings of people like Erich von Daniken:

    http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2013/04/chariots-frauds-real-erich-von-daniken/
    And the writings of people who claim that the origins for their skycharts are Sumarian writings but never actually show a tie-in.



    You are in no position to mock Fundies' beliefs.
     
  6. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    7,134
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The issue and point of the original post is rural Americans are largely ignorant and happy to be and remain ignorant in their religious fallacies because they ignore scientific knowledge that question their religion yet many never read the entire Bible at least once. Its for the common man touchy feely and warm and fuzzy Christianity not knowing the bad parts or care about how the bad parts were used to hurt people historically.
     
  7. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    8,901
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And the vast majority of those stories just so happen to align pretty consistently with Noah's flood right? Again, you're looking at this simplistically. It's one thing to claim "a long time ago the waters rose and flooded the earth." It's another to have stories that almost mirro the story of Noah.

    Evidence?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no. All water sources flood.

    Other than rising water, no other flood stories share any similarity to Noah.

    Geology, paleontology, biology, physics.
     
  9. OhZone

    OhZone Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right, because all those civilizations live near water. And they all thought their small piece of land was all there was to the world.

    At no time in the entire history of the earth, has it ever been globally flooded.
     
    Guno likes this.
  11. OhZone

    OhZone Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I agree that there has never been a global flood, but it would seem that way to those experiencing it. Thus we have all the stories from around the world. A tsunami would seen like a flood wouldn't it? .
     
  12. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Looks like the Jews got the idea from the the Babylonians. Does that surprise you?
     
  13. OhZone

    OhZone Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    No, this doesn't surprize me at all.
    In fact they plaigerized the enuma elish for their first 5 books of their bible.
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,491
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But... the time is coming when.....

    Zechariah 8:23
    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


    Isa 66:23
    And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
     
  15. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    8,901
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But water doesn't source a boat or orders to bring two of each animal.

    Then you haven't researched anything. The Hawaiian flood legend is very similar to Noah's story. besides, I thought the claim was that Noah's flood story plagiarized other legends. If the only connecting point is that there was a flood then it isn't plagiarism.

    Give me a specific example.
     
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People have only been in Hawaii for maybe 1,400 years. So when did they get flooded? Sailing across the Pacific Ocean isn't a flood.
     
  17. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Perhaps a Biblical Adam and Eve never existed but a biological Adam and Eve did. And at some point primates became self aware and God aware. If one takes Genesis literally then I understand some arguments. If one incorporates science into the equation figuratively then the story makes more sense. Even the beginning of Genesis sounds like the Big Bang. How else is a book 3-5K years old going to be written to nomadic tribes with no understanding of science. I doubt many could even read.

    If you went back to the Middle Ages and tried to explain the modern world....well try not to get killed. Heck you can go back 30 years and have trouble.

    While skeptical some even those highly educated find a way to believe in God. And don't forget people fighting for their culture and way of life. Slow changes are often accommodated but rapid changes are often resisted.
     
  18. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I live in HI and there is no flood legend I know of. How would it flood very much. I live at 700 feet on a volcano. Takes a huge tsunami to get that high and there's plenty of room to climb.
     
  19. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    8,901
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's kinda irrelevant. People being stories from their home country.
     
  20. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    8,901
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is a Hawaiian flood legend as shown here along with other similar flood legends.

    http://blog.mythoreligio.com/15-flood-myths-similar-to-the-story-of-noah-2/
     
  21. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The reason most believe in a god is that the concept of god was indoctrinated into their brains almost from birth.

    It's also wrong to generalize about a god. Shiva is not the same as Christ. None of "those highly educated" who believe in Christ also believe in Shiva. You, and every other theist, disbelieve almost as much as I do.
     
    Bowerbird and ESTT like this.
  22. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I would agree most people following a religion do so because it's cultural. That's not 100% though. Many are converts. Some from godless, some from their own idea of the God of their religion, and some from other religions. I don't know the numbers. Not sure anyone has good numbers for that.

    We were talking Christian Theology so I'm not sure what Shiva has to do with this. But I stand by my statement than many people with doctoral and postdoctoral degrees still believe in a God. I doubt anyone has percentages for that either.

    I find no contraindication for the existence of God in science but the opposite. Science has certainly set some limits on time frames and how God would operate should He exist.

    I've never stated my position on the existence of God. That is up to each individual to decide.
     
  23. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The point being is that the word "god" has different meanings to different people. There are people with doctoral and postdoctoral degrees who believe Shiva is God. These people do not believe Jesus is God, nor do they believe in the OT God. There are people with doctoral and postdoctoral degrees who believe Allah is God. These people do not believe Jesus is God.

    There is definite contradiction between science and the Christian God insofar as the Biblical Creation Story is concerned. The contradictions only go away when Christians pick and choose which parts of their Holy Scripture are fact and which parts are just-so stories.

    Why is that?
     
  24. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,281
    Likes Received:
    667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds a lot like that leftist religion of AGW, no matter how many peer reviewed papers, facts and outright data manipulation you show them...You just can't shake their faith in AGW, the lefts new religion. I wonder how Gaea feels about that?
     
  25. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,205
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Completely agree paragraph one. We eere talking Christain Theology.

    Genesis disputes itself if taken literally. Who were those wives and where from? Creation sounds a bit like the Big Bang to me.

    What I believe is irrelevant to the conversation. Maybe I'm a skeptic. Then again I could be Buddhist.
     

Share This Page